2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2506674 17-Jun-2020 14:24

frankv:

As I just found out, there's a difference between quarantine and managed isolation. (I'd often used quarantine when I should have used managed isolation.

Quarantine is for people with symptoms, or a positive test, and you're not allowed to leave your room. Managed isolation is for people arriving from overseas without symptoms, and allows you to go out for a (contact-free) walk, and makes you eligible for exemptions.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-border-controls/covid-19-managed-isolation-and-quarantine

So these women were in managed isolation, despite one of them having symptoms.

Interesting also, that what Landau, the Avatar producer, described (not allowed to leave his room) was quarantine, whereas the Avatar crew should have been in managed isolation (being symptom-free), which was what other people have described.

Makes sense. maybe that covers the mingling thats often mentioned here, you can mingle in managed isolation, just as we did at New World in Level 4. Social distancing. Good headline though

tdgeek

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#2506681 17-Jun-2020 14:29

MikeB4:

The Minister has effectively been relieved of command if that does not show that he is responsible what would in your eyes? Level One, Border entry control and isolation control has been a flustercluck.

As has MoH also been relieved of control. Yes David Clark is the Minister. Buck stops with him. Who runs the Ministry? Dr Bloomfield. Does that mean that he is protected from losing his role?

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#2506683 17-Jun-2020 14:36

tdgeek:

..Yes David Clark is the Minister. Buck stops with him. Who runs the Ministry? Dr Bloomfield. Does that mean that he is protected from losing his role?

I cant understand how they are the only 2 people who didnt know of serious issues with the system.
Every week I hear of issues with the guarantee/Isolation, how slack the whole process has been. Those in isolation mixing with the public , no testing being done before release, no follow ups or checking
on isolation . Those Quarantined/in isolation ignoring the rules .
Every week, since day 1.

Yet these 2 assumed all was OK .

tdgeek

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#2506691 17-Jun-2020 14:42

Omsbudsman will no doubt find out.

MikeB4

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#2506696 17-Jun-2020 14:51

tdgeek:

As has MoH also been relieved of control. Yes David Clark is the Minister. Buck stops with him. Who runs the Ministry? Dr Bloomfield. Does that mean that he is protected from losing his role?

How about you do some reading about how all this works. I am not going to bother further.

tdgeek

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#2506718 17-Jun-2020 14:57

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

As has MoH also been relieved of control. Yes David Clark is the Minister. Buck stops with him. Who runs the Ministry? Dr Bloomfield. Does that mean that he is protected from losing his role?

How about you do some reading about how all this works. I am not going to bother further.

If the rule is drop the Minister only and ignore whoever else may be at fault I wont bother reading. Thats archaic

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#2506719 17-Jun-2020 14:59

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

You need to understand the Westminster system, Ministerial responsibility and the delegated authority under which Civil Servants work. The bottom line is Minister Clark is responsible.

Yes and thats fine. No issue. For the sake of argument, let's say Dr A admitted he took a risk with this case, so he goes. Lets say Dr C was a wonderful Minister. Do we waste a sacrificial lamb? If so the W system is a waste of space

PM says Dr Clark is not the cause, thats clear.

It may well be that Dr A is the cause, if he offered his resignation it would not be accepted

That is the reality IMHO, common sense prevails.

Nominally, the Minster of Health is head of his Ministry. He's in charge, and expected to manage his Ministry so that he gets the information he needs, and to set in place controls and policies so that it functions as it should. If the Ministry doesn't function as it should, then it's the Minister's fault.

Having said that, the MoH has been out of the Minister's control for decades, if not generations. But again, under the Westminster system, the Minister is expected to know his own limitations and not take on a Ministry that he can't manage. So, either way, if something goes wrong he's in the gun.

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tdgeek

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#2506723 17-Jun-2020 15:10

frankv:

Nominally, the Minster of Health is head of his Ministry. He's in charge, and expected to manage his Ministry so that he gets the information he needs, and to set in place controls and policies so that it functions as it should. If the Ministry doesn't function as it should, then it's the Minister's fault.

Having said that, the MoH has been out of the Minister's control for decades, if not generations. But again, under the Westminster system, the Minister is expected to know his own limitations and not take on a Ministry that he can't manage. So, either way, if something goes wrong he's in the gun.

No issue with that at all. Its 2020. Most entities in this day and age if they see a weak link the weak link is removed. If MoH is seen to have failed, then the leader of MoH goes. If Westminster decrees that the Minister also goes then sobeit. My issue is if MoH is seen to have failed, we drop the Minster and leave the current MoH in place. We may end up losing a great Minister ( if that was the case,) and retaining the weakness. May have worked in another time, but this is 2020

As the PM said, Clark is not the cause, and she wants the cause assessed by Dr A

meesham

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#2506724 17-Jun-2020 15:11

At least it looks like it's going to be contained, they're throwing quite a wide net for tracing and trying to clean up the mess. Travelling from the UK during this pandemic wasn't a good idea but grief can make you think irrationally, but it sounds like they did everything that was asked of them. Not asking about specific conditions and just asking them "are you ok?" is a major failure by who ever did their check, not rely on someone whose parent has just died to think through every symptom and say if they're experiencing it. That said if Woodhouse's claim that they did meet with a family member on the way down to Wellington is true or deviated from the plan then they need to be put in prison (isolated).

The silver lining in all of this is the military will now be running the show and I imagine there will be much stricter adherence to the rules. It also shows that the idea of letting in 10,000 students and having universities manage the quarantine would be a struggle and introduce a lot more risk.

wellygary

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#2506725 17-Jun-2020 15:11

tdgeek:

Omsbudsman will no doubt find out.

He's not a happy camper

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419184/covid-19-isolation-and-quarantine-facilities-to-be-inspected

""When we came up to Auckland to inspect a prison, it was all arranged for the next day, my staff were all set to go, without warning a whole lot of people came from overseas, placed into quarantine and there was mingling.

......"It should've been managed better than that," he said.

Boshier said he was "livid" and the mismanagement forced his staff into isolation, setting their work back by weeks."

Geektastic

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#2506727 17-Jun-2020 15:14

Batman:
MikeB4:

This needs to be taken seriously, it really does NZ cannot withstand another level 4 lockdown.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419184/covid-19-isolation-and-quarantine-facilities-to-be-inspected

Wow I'm glad someone has discovered this. Sounds very much like a she'll be right approach to quarantine. Now hopefully it can be fixed. Now who is responsible for this?

The person on the 9th floor of The Beehive.

concordnz

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#2506729 17-Jun-2020 15:15

@FineWine - you got the names reversed on the Quotes referenced in your post #2506624
I didn't say the 1st quote & I did say the 2nd one.

concordnz

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#2506755 17-Jun-2020 15:32

It's interesting that there is claims on Stuff.
That the women also lied about going straight to Wellington without stopping.
(There is allegations in Parliament they got lost & headed north & another relative went & found them & pointed them in the right direction (after getting a kiss & cuddle from them).

I wonder what else these two women have lied to officials about.....

JaseNZ

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#2506760 17-Jun-2020 15:37

concordnz: It's interesting that there is claims on Stuff.
That the women also lied about going straight to Wellington without stopping.
(There is allegations in Parliament they got lost & headed north & another relative went & found them & pointed them in the right direction (after getting a kiss & cuddle from them).

I wonder what else these two women have lied to officials about.....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121857737/coronavirus-national-mp-claims-in-parliament-women-with-covid-got-lost-and-stopped-on-drive-from-auckland-to-wellington

Told ya the straight drive without interaction was complete B/S

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GV27

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#2506761 17-Jun-2020 15:39

We don't know if that is true yet or not. Up to MOH or JA to confirm but I assume it is being followed-up on.

One of the reasons these things get said in Parliament is that MPs can't really get into any trouble for saying them. Making the claim outside of parliament is another matter.

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