Nissan LEAF - General

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#1571094 13-Jun-2016 15:36

gzt: That's useful. Is there any safe option to gain some charge from a standard 10A socket?

Absolutely. I bought the optional cable that does exactly that. Autolink sell them for $1,000. I didn't see how I could NOT have one as having one means I can charge the car anywhere, any time a regular power outlet is available. Slower (about 2/3s the speed of 16amps?).....but it gets the job done. Here's a photo. As you can see, you can select the amp rating. I was told to use 10amps.

This cable lets me charge up - slower - from any normal power point.

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Talkiet

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#1571095 13-Jun-2016 15:36

Linuxluver:

New thought.

I'm looking at plugshare.com and there are some big gaps on SH1 between Taupo and Paraparaumu for charging an EV....and that's if you include a normal power point in Waiouru that might take as much as 12 hours to fully charge the car.

But if you stopped at a motel and plugged in via running an extension into your room...and left 12 hours later (day or night), then it would definitely be do-able.....but would take about 3 days to drive from Auckland to Wellington (drive about 90 minutes - 120-140kms - then plug in for 12 hours (3112 residential outlet at 10amps). There are easier ways to travel. :-)

More like 4 days if you wanted to sleep at night instead of while charging: drive for about 120km and then stop for the day (and night) to charge and enjoy whatever is going on in that place. So basically 120km / day - unless you strike a fast charger and can compress two days into one.

Not fast....but do-able and maybe even desirable if you're thinking of a relaxing journey down the island (or up it) with a holiday built in.

Ideally, there would be a CHAdeMO high-speed charger open and available (you don't have to wait for it) every 100km. If that were the case the trip would take (642kms) about 7 hours of driving plus 6 x 20 mins of charging - so another 2 hours. About 9 hours all up. That's about the same as petrol car because I normally stop for 15-20 minutes every hour or so anyway to rest and eat and do whatever else needs doing.

So if the charging stations are there, an EV can make the trip - without rushing - in about the same time a petrol car would.

I'm a huge fan of the EV concept and I want one... BUT trying to suggest that it might be desirable to drive 120k/day to get from Akl to Wlg (under current infrastructure conditions)? I think that's a bit farfetched.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Beccara

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#1571096 13-Jun-2016 15:40

Yeah it's not going to happen for most people lol, I love the idea of a fast charger network tho - By enforcing 20minute stops every so over you'd help the drivers take a rest break and what not

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Linuxluver

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#1571097 13-Jun-2016 15:45

Talkiet:

I'm a huge fan of the EV concept and I want one... BUT trying to suggest that it might be desirable to drive 120k/day to get from Akl to Wlg (under current infrastructure conditions)? I think that's a bit farfetched.

Cheers - N

I did say it would be a holiday. :-)

I wouldn't mind buying a powerpack - like for my phone - that could hold another 50kms of range. Keep it in the boot and plug in as required. Like a spare tyre. It would probably weigh a lot and reduce my range.

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Beccara

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#1571099 13-Jun-2016 15:52

Looks like you might be able to hit Palmy to Wellington soon enough

gzt

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#1571129 13-Jun-2016 16:17

Linuxluver:
gzt: That's useful. Is there any safe option to gain some charge from a standard 10A socket?

Absolutely. I bought the optional cable that does exactly that. Autolink sell them for $1,000. I didn't see how I could NOT have one as having one means I can charge the car anywhere, any time a regular power outlet is available. Slower (about 2/3s the speed of 16amps?).....but it gets the job done. Here's a photo. As you can see, you can select the amp rating. I was told to use 10amps.

This cable lets me charge up - slower - from any normal power point.

Excellent. But wow 1k! Gotta keep the warranty tho : ).

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#1571137 13-Jun-2016 16:36

Linuxluver:

I wouldn't mind buying a powerpack - like for my phone - that could hold another 50kms of range. Keep it in the boot and plug in as required. Like a spare tyre. It would probably weigh a lot and reduce my range.

Sorry couldn't resist :)

Linuxluver

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#1571157 13-Jun-2016 16:56

wellygary:

Linuxluver:

I wouldn't mind buying a powerpack - like for my phone - that could hold another 50kms of range. Keep it in the boot and plug in as required. Like a spare tyre. It would probably weigh a lot and reduce my range.

Sorry couldn't resist :)

How about a stylish, tow-able version that links to the vehicle and automatically kicks in when the power is low?

(Just buy an EV-switchable hybrid, right...though this would be much cheaper than one of those)

There are portable power packs, but they won't exactly fit in the boot. They are more for the AA-style road rescuer who needs to get an EV to a charging station.

Failing that.....your suggestion isn't a bad one provided the power connections line up. It would be useful as a stop-gap or in emergencies until the infrastructure is there and / or the range is doubled. Being able to get as far as Taupo from Auckland on a single charge would change EVERYTHING!!! :-)

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#1571162 13-Jun-2016 17:01

gzt:

Excellent. But wow 1k! Gotta keep the warranty tho : ).

There is probably a cheaper one online somewhere? But then if anything goes wrong, the risk is all mine. Whereas if I buy the one supplied by the vendor of the vehicle and something goes wrong....I have some recourse. I saw it as insurance because I'm moving into a new realm and being a newb I'm being extra careful.....even if that costs me more.

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#1571225 13-Jun-2016 19:27

Linuxluver:

timbosan:

Linuxluver:

("Do not drag people off at the lights. Do not drag people off at the lights Do not drag people off at the lights...")

Funny you should say this - I was driving through Otahuhu and stopped at the lights next to a Leaf (driven by a dealer) and thought I could easily beat it off the lights, but jeez they are FAST! And my car isn't slow - 3.2L V6 Golf R32. The instant acceleration on electric cars is very impressive, must be amazing to use Insane mode on the Tesla's!

I wasn't sure how much better it might be. I'm the guy who drives (manual) 1.3L cars (max). Compared to them, the LEAF is pretty exciting. As for Telsa....the risk there is that the big automakers steal his best ideas (and people) and crush him. That's been the standard mode of operation since the 1940s. He'll be aware of that....and seems to be doing a lot of the right things to establish his brand and now to also cover off the lower price entry that would eat his lunch down the road with a 'good enough' model from another company. Like the LEAF from Nissan.

I'll be looking hard at the Tesla 3 in 2-3 years time. Meanwhile......"do not drag people off at the lights......much". :-)

From my understanding, a 2L NA car reaches a peak torque of around 220Nm at 4400 rpm in general. Plus gearing and what nots (unless it's a CVT, then it has its own problems eg windup lag) you're never at the optimum torque on the torque curve.

An EV has peak torque all the time.

Linuxluver

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#1571532 14-Jun-2016 11:01

joker97:

An EV has peak torque all the time.

That could resemble a tattoo worth getting.

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#1571541 14-Jun-2016 11:21

H0L^ ^%$# just read the Leaf has torque of 280Nm!

No wonder it feels so good to drive (acc to you guys).

Scott3

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#1574747 15-Jun-2016 23:52

Linuxluver:

Absolutely. I bought the optional cable that does exactly that. Autolink sell them for $1,000. I didn't see how I could NOT have one as having one means I can charge the car anywhere, any time a regular power outlet is available. Slower (about 2/3s the speed of 16amps?).....but it gets the job done. Here's a photo. As you can see, you can select the amp rating. I was told to use 10amps.

This cable lets me charge up - slower - from any normal power point.

I am a big supporter of electric car's, so it really pains me to say this:

What is pictured above is quite dangerous, and poses a significant fire risk. While I am not an Electrician or Lawyer, my understanding is it is quite Illegal under NZ law for autolink to have sold you the above products.

Work safe has this to say on the issue:

http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/documents/about/publications/publications-for-industry/compliance-guides/guide-to-safe-electrical-gas-products.pdf (page 17)

http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/consumer/safe-living-with-electricity/electrical-equipment-and-appliances/buying-and-selling-appliances

Your first EVSE is not marked with the correct voltage, when the electrician modified the internals of the Japanese Nissan EVSE, they did not relabel to reflect the new operating voltage. This breaches the requirements of being marked as appropriate for 230v.

With regards to the second EVSE (the Grey Charge-Amps), this product has been imported from Sweden and appears to be fitted with a schuko plug. Clearly this breaches the requirement of being suitable for NZ.

With the first issue is a largely a technicality in regards to labeling, and given the EVSE has been modified to suit NZ voltage, it should be safe to operate. I would have liked to see it tested and tagged, given it is a used, modified piece of equipment.

In regards to the second this is a very serious concern. Basically they have supplied a device (the Charge-amps EVSE cord), that when coupled with your leaf is capable of drawing 16 Amps of current. They have supplied an adapter (which visually appears to have no fuse) to allow this to be plugged into a 10 Amp AS/NZS 3112 plug. If I am correct that this adapter is un-fused, there is nothing to stop your Car (if the EVSE is set to 16A) from drawing 16A of current through a 10A Plug. If this occurs for a few hours (typical duration for car charging) the best outcome will a burnt out electrical socket, the the worst outcome will be a house/ building fire.

Autolink telling you to set the EVSE to 10A is absolutely NOT good enough. What happens if you lend your car to somebody, and don't tell them (as you don't think they will charge it), and the pull the cord out of the boot and set it to the highest setting to give it a try? What happens if your car is charging at a motel with the cord plugged into a 10A outdoor socket, or running trough a window and passing kid is interested in the idea of a car charging, and decides to press the button a few times? what happens if you have a momentary laps of judgement.

Generally the way our electrical safety regulations are set up, is that (without modifying equipment), it should not be possible cause fires from electrical overload. (double plugs are the rare exception to this rule) For example every item you can buy with a 10A plug is designed to draw less than 10 Amps of current. Multiboxes / plug-boards have overload protection, so if you plug in two 10A heaters, they will safely shut everything down, before anything melts.

Safe, legal Electric car charging cords are readily available in NZ

To allow you to plug your car into an ordinary socket:

Juicepoint.co.nz sell the below 8Amp EVSE charging cord.

Here is a photo of the version they use to sell, In regards to pricing, in November 2014 it was advertised at NZD 495+ GST (~ NZD570)

Note that they set them at 8A (not the plug maximum of 10A) to give more safety margin and minimize the risk of fires due to weak wiring. Even at 8A the plugs get noticeable warm.

That Grey Charge-Amp's is also available from Bluecars.nz (They are an authorized Re-seller, unlike autolink). The version bluecars.nz sells has the schuko (European plug) replaced with a 16A Blue caravan plug. This can be used safely at any of the current settings on the unit. If you want to use this on a standard domestic outlet, bluecars.nz sell a caravan socket to domestic plug adapter, that included both RCD and Over-current protection. If the Charge-Amps is accidentally set to 16A, it will trip, and cut the power, before anything melts. Photo below:

General notes on electricity

If you use water as an easy to understand example:

Voltage (V or Volts) is like Pressure
Current (A or Amps) is like Flow rate
Resistance (Ohms) is like hose size

Power (kW or KiloWatts) is Voltage times Current.

Electrical appliance designers (for say a heater) chose a resistance that will give them their desired current flow (in Amps), and heat output (in KiloWatts), given a known voltage used in the country the appliance is to be sold.

Too much voltage will cause the appliance to draw more current, and produce more heat that it is designed for.

General notes on over current protection in NZ domestic houses:

NZ houses have lots of sockets (Say 10 plus) connected daisy chain style back to an over-current breaker on the circuit board. The breaker (typically 16A or 20A) is sized to protect the wiring to the sockets (not the sockets themselves). The sockets are protected by how only appliances that draw up to 10A are allowed to be sold in NZ, and how multi-boards have integrated over-current protection.

General notes on Electric Vehicle chargers.

The charger is located on board. In the case of the Nissan leaf apparently it is rated to take 110 - 240V (It is a global market car, I spouse it is cheaper to just have one design than to have regional specific chargers built into the cars). I have never seen it myself but apparently there is sticker on the side of the charger to this effect.

The charger receives a pilot signal from the EVSE, which tells it when / if it is safe to start charging, and what the maximum current it should draw is. The charger adjusts its resistance to ensure appropriate current draw.

Ex Japan and NZ New Nissan leaf's can draw a maximum of 3.3kW (approx 16Amps), Some UK market ones can use 6.6kW (approxx 32A). Tesla's draw a maximum of 32A Per phase 3phase (US & Japan market ones draw a maximum of 80A single phase)

General notes on EVSE's (Electrical Vehicle Supply Equipment (or the cord that you use to plug in an electric vehicle)

These can be hardwired or portable.

The standard supports high current, is designed to allow for outdoor use, and is designed for a much larger number of plug/unplug cycles than typical domestic and industrial plugs.

As such it has to be engineered a bit smarter than a normal cord.

When an EVSE is unplugged from a car, there are no dangerous voltages exposed. You can poke a fork in the end, or drop it in a puddle, with no electric shock risk.

When a EVSE is plugged into the car, It is checked it is fully plugged, and the integrity of the earth connection is checked, The EVSE tells the car the most power it can draw via a pilot signal. If all the checks are passed, a relay (electronically activated switch) closed (turns on) in the EVSE, and only then is 240V allowed to flow to the car. The car will draw only the current it needs up to the maximum set by the EVSE.

Note only items downstream of the EVSE "Box" are protected. With the Grey Charge-Amps unit the box is integrated into the handle, and you can set the max current via a button. This means only the car plug bit is protected. With other brands the entire cord is protected. With portable units be carefull of the upstream (wall) end, it is unprotected by the EVSE. Keep the wall end dry.

Scott3

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#1574753 16-Jun-2016 00:11

Linuxluver:

Scott3:

What plug did the Sparky put on? Is it a AS/NZS 3112, Or a PDL 56 series. A lot of people have had heat issues with the first, and the second is rare in non-industrial or non-commercial settings.

I see. Thanks for clarifying. He installed a PDL plug. I had a look. It's explicitly rated as 16amps / 240 volts.

That PDL socket (56SO316/240) is basically the same as the one blue campground one everybody is taking about (IEC 60309). Sparky would have replaced the one on your cord simply to gain a sealing / locking ring (plug itself is the same as what you had before). Either he didn't have one of the downhill sloping sockets you need to use outside to keep rain out, or he perfected the increased water spray & pull out resistance of the locking ring variant.

Either way nothing wrong with this, we were worried he had used the 15A flat pin socket (where people have had overheating issues), instead of the 16A round pin one.

The box says 200v / 15amps. I assume this would match the requirements of the vehicle as they are designed for each other.

Car charger is built into the leaf, and it can handle a range of voltages, Cord (EVSE) is japan specific.

I think it is just one component inside the EVSE that gives issues (a tiny transformer that makes the extra low voltage power for the pilot signals) (something burns out from too much power). See here for photos:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17213

Once that's swapped out should be work fine.

My understanding is that our ratings are maximums. I should not exceed 16amp and 240 volts. If the vehicle and it's associated gear only draw (max) 200v / 15amps, then this is lower than the rating for the power point itself...and therefore OK. The problem would arise if it was a higher draw than the outlet can support. Right? I have loads of electrical stuff I plug in that draws less than the maximum and that's OK.

I've checked it for heating. The unit 200v / 15amp isn't warm to the touch even after several hours of charging.

In short, no, things go bad when you have too much voltage. Think like too much pressure in a hose.... Either burst hose, or flow rate too high. For current (Amps that is true, the device will just use what it needs (as long as the voltage is on spec).

Wouldn't expect the EVSE box to get warm, it only runs safety systems and the signal pilot. Actual charger (power electronics) are built into the car.

dwl

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#1574787 16-Jun-2016 07:17

That must be one of the longest posts I have ever seen but this is also possibly one of the most serious examples of a vendor in NZ supplying unsafe equipment.

I am currently charging a Leaf with the Charge Amps via the Bluecars supplied adapter with integral 10A breaker set for 10A and running only mildly warm at the socket. A combination that allows for 16A is just stupid.

Hopefully if Autolink has supplied this adapter they will take corective action for any future sales and also a recall on any 16A to 3112 10A adapter cables sold without integral protection.

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