Hybrid cars, and which ones are available these days

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#2881303 8-Mar-2022 16:57

RUKI:
Jaxson: ........>Were the batteries on either of these era vehicle actively cooled?
That's been a continued theme amongst the full electric discussions, and one of the down points for the early leafs.

The batteries in Toyota Hybrids utilizing NiMh batteries are air cooled (variable fan speed).

Thanks.

Other than that the Mitsubishi outlander seemed to be the only other lower priced second hand option with a decent boot storage area.

Do they get much love here?

RUKI

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#2881318 8-Mar-2022 17:43

Jaxson: ..... the Mitsubishi outlander seemed to be the only other lower priced second hand option with a decent boot storage area.

Do they get much love here?

MMC PHEV is popular. Use LM327 Dongle and free android app "PHEV Whatchdog" to check battery. Not uncommon to see low remaining capacity in some imports, e.g. <60%

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Scott3

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#2883732 9-Mar-2022 13:17

Jaxson:

Used to think that, but hybrids (toyota at least) use the Atkinson cycle engine, which is rather gutless at launch speeds but sufficient and very economical at open road speeds. It's the perfect pairing for electric to get the vehicle moving and then efficient petrol to take over after that.

We've been debating a different car for several years, and will be very sad to see the Mazda MPV boot space go for our camping trips especially, but the Prius and Outlander PHEV models are really getting our attention now with the cost of fuel. Would be looking around the 2012 mark I expect given our budget.

Were the batteries on either of these era vehicle actively cooled?
That's been a continued theme amongst the full electric discussions, and one of the down points for the early leafs.

If you want Interior & cargo space, Give the Prius V / alpha a look. Prius drive-train in a bigger body. At 100kW, it's not going to be quick, but will flow with traffic without issue. Rated at 4.6L/100km.

Partner wanted something flasher, so we ended up with a lexus RX hybid. But the Alpha has it beat hands down on passenger and cargo space.

5 seat version gets the well proven NiMH batteries, that are generally regarded to last the life of the vehicle in private duty, but with an active aftermarket to deal with battery issues thanks to the taxi industry.

Don't know much about the lithem battery in the 7 seater sorry.

Regarding The Outlander PHEV, the battery health on them, can be highly variable. Some seem to degrade slowly, and some concerning fast. Generally their reputation for battery health is pretty bad. You definitely would want to scan your prospective purchase to check the battery health.

RobDickinson

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#2883738 9-Mar-2022 13:21

Mine was one of the good outlanders but still dropped, party expected but also mostly down to the horrific BMS they built into them, is usually not the cells that are the problem

gzt

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#2883740 9-Mar-2022 13:25

Scott3: If you want Interior & cargo space, Give the Prius V / alpha a look. Prius drive-train in a bigger body. At 100kW, it's not going to be quick, but will flow with traffic without issue. Rated at 4.6L/100km.

Provided you remember to press the power button for overtaking and tight lane changes. It's always off by default every start so remember to press it

Jaxson

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#2883745 9-Mar-2022 13:52

Thanks all,

Very keen on a PHEV, which I don't think the Prius 'station wagon' style offers?

So likely looking at a Prius in standard trim to get the PHEV option.

Are people installing fast charger units in the home to charge those, or are the PHEVs so small in capacity that trickle from standard household outlet is ok overnight?

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RobDickinson

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#2883747 9-Mar-2022 13:58

Depends how quick you want it charged, the outlander I think maxes out at ~3kw so 3-4 hours to charge at home at fastest (8-9kwh of energy). its one of the larger phevs.

So practically overnight any plug socket will do fine.

It can do chademo DC on the road (at 20-24kw) but its pointless to bother.

Scott3

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#2883752 9-Mar-2022 14:07

Jaxson:

Thanks all,

Very keen on a PHEV, which I don't think the Prius 'station wagon' style offers?

So likely looking at a Prius in standard trim to get the PHEV option.

Are people installing fast charger units in the home to charge those, or are the PHEVs so small in capacity that trickle from standard household outlet is ok overnight?

You are correct. Only the Pirus PHEV / Prius prime are plug in, and only available in the Prius body shape.

I think they can charge at 3.3kW, so certainly can take advantage of a faster charger than a 10A wall outlet. On the Prius PHEV it would cut the charge time from about 2 hours to about 1 hour. Up to you to decide if this is value. If you often pop home in the middle of the day for a short time, the ability to charge faster would mean you depart, more charged, and hence do more running on electric.

Avoid using the term "Fast" for an AC home wallbox style charger. When it comes to plug in vehicle's most people think of a fast charger as one outputting DC, rather than AC at 50kW+ (Although I note there are some 25kW DC chargers around).

jonathan18

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#2883755 9-Mar-2022 14:12

Jaxson:

Thanks all,

Very keen on a PHEV, which I don't think the Prius 'station wagon' style offers?

So likely looking at a Prius in standard trim to get the PHEV option.

Are people installing fast charger units in the home to charge those, or are the PHEVs so small in capacity that trickle from standard household outlet is ok overnight?

This article suggests about six hours from flat for a 2021 Outlander PHEV (https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-long-term-test-the-charge-for-charging/).

Many BEV owners (and I imagine the same applies to PHEV owners) get by fine on standard 3-pin charging; I imagine many people get a significant proportion of their charging done in the timeframe offered by those plans with say three hours free.

We have a 16A caravan socket for our Leaf, and 90% of the time that provides enough juice in a single hour of charging (the free hour with EK) for my wife's daily tripping around (work, kids etc).

Just a query on the Prius PHEV - I recall the only PHEV model used to be the Prime, which for quite some time was only a four-seater and then became a five-seater; are there other models available now? (From the outside at least, the Prime doesn't seem a particularly large car, especially if replacing an MPV.)

RUKI

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#2883864 9-Mar-2022 17:21

Jaxson: .......
So likely looking at a Prius in standard trim to get the PHEV option.

Are people installing fast charger units in the home to charge those, or are the PHEVs so small in capacity that trickle from standard household outlet is ok overnight?

Prius PHEV Max charge current is 15A
FYI: genuine Toyota EVSE come is 2 options:
15A has thermistor in the plug
12A does not have thermistor in the plug

Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair

quickymart

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#2883873 9-Mar-2022 17:36

With petrol prices going the way they are (ie, upwards) I would hazard a guess hybrids are still far cheaper to fill up than a 100% petrol-driven car - would that be accurate?

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Jaxson

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#2883876 9-Mar-2022 17:40

quickymart:

With petrol prices going the way they are (ie, upwards) I would hazard a guess hybrids are still far cheaper to fill up than a 100% petrol-driven car - would that be accurate?

I think you'll find they probably always are regardless?

More so in ideal circumstances around town, less so on longer drives at high speed and up hills.

Dingbatt

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#2883946 9-Mar-2022 18:50

quickymart:

With petrol prices going the way they are (ie, upwards) I would hazard a guess hybrids are still far cheaper to fill up than a 100% petrol-driven car - would that be accurate?

Well my Camry Hybrid has a 60 litre tank, so it doesn’t cost any less to fill than any other car that takes 91 petrol in a 60 litre tank 😁. The difference is how often it needs to be filled, which for me was about 3 weeks ago in Hamilton @ about $2.60 a litre (still have half a tank).

Only fill about once a month and half that often when we’ve been under house arrest in the last two years.

The Camry has appreciated in its value as a trade-in. Only 3 months ago nobody was much interested in it. Now I have sales-people contacting me. So don’t expect too many bargains in either hybrids or PHEVs.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

mudguard

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#2884021 9-Mar-2022 21:03

Jaxson:
quickymart:

With petrol prices going the way they are (ie, upwards) I would hazard a guess hybrids are still far cheaper to fill up than a 100% petrol-driven car - would that be accurate?

I think you'll find they probably always are regardless?

More so in ideal circumstances around town, less so on longer drives at high speed and up hills.

That was my dilemma. I was decoding between the Corolla Hybrid and the petrol only.
The hybrid was too anemic for my use, total power was 90kW Vs 125kW plus whatever the kerb weight was. Sure if it was just urban driving it may use less. But it would be really good to have one for a month.

But no tow bar meant it was a pretty easy decision too. That said I've had Camry rental hybrids and I got oh so close to getting a thousand kms out of what I thought was fifty litre tank.

Dingbatt

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#2884068 10-Mar-2022 06:17

mudguard: Camry………what I thought was fifty litre tank.

Possibly is now. My car is 10 years old and is definitely has a 60 litre tank. Just under 1200km per tank, more on long trips because consumption gets down to 4.8l/100km.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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