Defending moving vehicle violation from AKL Transport

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#1033555 29-Apr-2014 22:41

Aroona: The car is certainly not in the lane for 50 meters, in order to get to the left lane.

Are you sure about that? You will definitely need to get exact numbers based on the photographs before you go to court. Other than that, it looks like you can't lose.

My guess is as soon as you decide to take it to court and advise AT of that, then an human with decision making power will look at the evidence and decide it's not worth it and will cancel before the hearing to avoid the legal costs.

CutCutCut

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#1033557 29-Apr-2014 22:43

gzt:
Aroona: The car is certainly not in the lane for 50 meters, in order to get to the left lane.

Are you sure about that? You will definitely need to get exact numbers based on the photographs before you go to court. Other than that, it looks like you can't lose.

My guess is as soon as you decide to take it to court and advise AT of that, then an human with decision making power will look at the evidence and decide it's not worth it and will cancel before the hearing to avoid the legal costs.

That would be my guess too, unless you are willing to actually make a court date, they won't back down.

Aaroona

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#1033559 29-Apr-2014 22:44

What are the consequences of being found guilty though; is it just added cost to the original fine? Or is it something I have to declare to the insurance company etc. as well?

There are things like insurance which I really would rather not mess with..

mattwnz

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#1033560 29-Apr-2014 22:45

Can't it go to the disputes tribunal as it is such a small amount being claimed? There is a fixed cost involved to in it. For it to go to an actual court sounds like madness and a waste of court time. Maybe that is part of the reason why it takes years for things to get to court in NZ. Maybe you should ask the CAB and their lawyer for advice.

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#1033562 29-Apr-2014 22:50

Aaroona: What are the consequences of being found guilty though; is it just added cost to the original fine? Or is it something I have to declare to the insurance company etc. as well?

I really doubt an AT fine of any kind can have any impact on insurance. In any case losing is no different outcome to if you paid it. Not that you are going to lose here. Not that this will even go to court probably.

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#1033571 29-Apr-2014 23:05

mattwnz: Personally if I knew I was in the right and hadn't done what they allege, I would defend it on principle, as long as it doesn't cost.

That sounds more than reasonable to me - as long as it doesn't cost (and think about your time, too). Lawyers LOVE principled people who will spend $$$ just to prove they are right. The penalties are just small enough that most people will just pay to make the problem go away.

An old boss of mine made the front page of the NZ Herald for beating a parking ticket. The ticket was less than $100 from memory (10 years ago), but we lost him from work for a few days while he defended the case himself. Whether it was worth the effort is in the eye of the ticket holder.

Jury service falls into a similar category IMHO... busy 'middle New Zealand' people will try and get off Jury Duty, leaving a pool of jurors that might not be best representative of the population. Previous employers have wiggled me out of it in the past. Now that I am the decision maker, if my name comes up again I would consider it more seriously.

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#1033577 29-Apr-2014 23:42

can't be as bad as virgin airlines. they broke my bag. i took it back and they said the rules say you cannot bring the back bag and claim damage, it has to be lodged upon collection of bag from carousel

ok so i flew with them again, took it from the carousel and lodged a claim

want to take my bag as evidence - ok i have clothes in it? so i took it home, they said just leave it with them will be fine

3 months later nothing, go back, bring the back, they say go to get checked out at repairer - repairer says cannot repair

they take my bag, give me a form, make a stat declaration at a JP, take the form back to virgin, no they don't take the forms, you need to send to australia

i haven't sent the form to australia (14 months on ... i wonder if i mail it in now if the claim will still stand).

But yes, I have been stung by AT before, they have eyes everywhere waiting to sting you. and there's nothing you can write to them that will be grounds to dismiss - go to court is the answer

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mattwnz

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#1033578 29-Apr-2014 23:55

In some ways I just see fines like this a like paying a donation to a library or to the NZ health or education system. You would think that they would initially send a warning, , rather than fine you straight off.

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#1033581 30-Apr-2014 00:07

if you are in a position that could be fined, the guy hides behind the tree, writes the ticket in hiding, and hands it to you.

amorpeth

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#1033614 30-Apr-2014 07:55

Its totally about the principle and if you don't fight it they get away with it and keep doing it. I would collect your evidence as if you are going to court and send it back to the council for review. If they still wont budge take them to the small claims court and just defend yourself. Looks like there's just a filing fee of $45 in your case - http://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/disputes-tribunal/fees.

nitrotech

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#1033627 30-Apr-2014 08:34

Best advise I've been given is to remember that it's a court of law not a court of justice - there is very little chance of winning in court - having been through the process it's just not worth the time or energy - save yourself the hassle invest your time into other pursuits.

Peppery

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#1033658 30-Apr-2014 09:01

CutCutCut: In my experience they don't seem open to admiting they could be wrong or even discussing it. My wife got a parking ticket on a road with a really bizzare layout (which actually has parking spaces that contradict their own rules) and I sent photos, maps, measurements, plus other exapmles of inconsistent enforcement/rules around the area. I got an acknowledgement that they had received my letters but that was about it, they weren't willing to discuss any of it, just sent back info on how to arrange a court hearing and how it will cost more if found guilty. I was all willing to fight them, but unfortunately my wife was not so willing and it was her ticket so we paid and moved on. About a month later, all of a sudden a bunch more signs and road markings are erected all over the place, hmmmm funny that.

Hah! That sounds really similar to my case (signs magically went up, I'm in the wrong, take us to court blah blah blah). Has anyone ever successfully contested a ticket from AT?

Aaroona

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#1033659 30-Apr-2014 09:03

nitrotech: Best advise I've been given is to remember that it's a court of law not a court of justice - there is very little chance of winning in court - having been through the process it's just not worth the time or energy - save yourself the hassle invest your time into other pursuits.

The problem is here in this case, is it seems the "Law" is not clear.

Their camera started taking pictures of my vehicle before and after I was exiting the intersection. That is approx. 98 meters from where the last photo is taken.

First picture:

Second picture, showing I waited for the bus and then was pulling in behind it - if I was going to use the bus lane, why would I swing out so wide?

Third picture, vehicle in the left lane, driving over a bus stop (not stationary), but NOT in the bus lane, evident by the car next to mine which is over the writing "BUS LANE"

am I incorrect in what I'm thinking?

EDIT:

Also in the last picture, a quick google map to calcualate distance - even if I started to move before the lane started to split; that's still less than 40 meters, account only for the "BUS LANE"

Am I correct in saying their evidence is alleging I used the bus lane from Picture 1 all the way to picture 3? in which case, that's definitely incorrect.

Peppery

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#1033664 30-Apr-2014 09:12

After seeing the pictures I'd have to say I'm with you on this one. I've done that exact same path many times as I used to live right at that intersection but never would have thought they'd be that overzealous about it.

Jase2985

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#1033666 30-Apr-2014 09:13

the first picture makes it look like your going into the bus lane, many many people swing out wide and over the lane markings only to end up in the left hand lane. from that picture its does not look at all like you intended to go into the right hand non bus lane

looks like you are in the unfortuneate position of the evidence points to you doing the crime when you actually didnt

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