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Topic # 143865 29-Apr-2014 21:43
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I received a moving vehicle violation in the mail about a month ago, from Auckland Transport, alleging I had used a Special (bus) lane in Auckland CBD.
I was very confident I had not used the lane inappropriately and wrote a letter, noting the fact you had to use the lane to cross over twice in order to make two left turns.
Google earth also showed two other vehicles performing the same manoeuvre, leaving the same street, images which I included in my letter. I also asked that; should they not waive the fine, that they include the evidence of the violation.

Well I received the letter today, explaining they are not going to waive the fine and included their alleged evidence which was used to base their claim.

The images themselves don't really match what they're claiming, which is "You were observed in excess of the maximum length of 50 meters allowed [in the special lane]"

The problem is, the evidence they included shows that my vehicles drivers wheel was over the line heading into the correct lane, pulling out of the intersection, which indicates my car was pulling in behind a vehicle into the correct lane. The last picture they show is of my vehicle, just passing the bus stop (not bus lane, based on the road markings).

I used google maps to at least give an indication of where likely you would have had to have turned into the bus lane in order to exceed the 50m allowed limit, and it appears to not match up with their claims/evidence, further cementing my claim that I an innocent and if nothing else, that this is just a simple misunderstanding of a very unfortunate piece of road design.


Now, my question: How many of you have defended their ticket in court? 

What are the pro's and cons of doing so? 

I guess one of my main worries is, while I am absolutely certain of my innocence, if by chance I was found guilty by a court, would this be something I need to declare to my insurance company?





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  Reply # 1033510 29-Apr-2014 21:48
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Interesting. I ride a bike and they tried to pull the, using bus lane. Prompt reply advising that bus lane bikes can use and bus only they cant. Never heard from them again.
This is one of those intersections people get nailed on. Always a camera on this one.
Red is the legal approach to left hand turn with bus lane and green is what most people do:

Kudos to whoever guesses where this intersection is!





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  Reply # 1033519 29-Apr-2014 21:57
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TimA: Interesting. I ride a bike and they tried to pull the, using bus lane. Prompt reply advising that bus lane bikes can use and bus only they cant. Never heard from them again.
This is one of those intersections people get nailed on. Always a camera on this one.
Red is the legal approach to left hand turn with bus lane and green is what most people do:

Kudos to whoever guesses where this intersection is!


This is the intersection outside the AirNZ building in Auckland, just a couple hundred metres away from JohnR's office (Vodafone HQ)

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1033521 29-Apr-2014 21:58
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that looks quite similar.

The one I'm referring to is the Anzac Ave one.



The x on the right indicates the starting point, this is where the first and second photo were taken.
Orange indicates where the last photo was taken.


As far as I'm aware, there are no laws against driving over a bus stop itself. 

I don't understand how the picture they took up the road, which shows that my vehicle was moving into the correct lane can be used as "evidence" that the lane was used incorrectly.






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  Reply # 1033522 29-Apr-2014 22:01
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Aaroona: that looks quite similar.

The one I'm referring to is the Anzac Ave one.



The x on the right indicates the starting point, this is where the first and second photo were taken.
Orange indicates where the last photo was taken.


As far as I'm aware, there are no laws against driving over a bus stop itself.



If you took a left hand turn and drove in the bus lane all the way past "Rusty Roof" thats a violation. The bus lane ends where you can see the bus and the orange lines. But a very confusion road layout.







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  Reply # 1033523 29-Apr-2014 22:03
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TimA:
Aaroona: that looks quite similar.

The one I'm referring to is the Anzac Ave one.



The x on the right indicates the starting point, this is where the first and second photo were taken.
Orange indicates where the last photo was taken.


As far as I'm aware, there are no laws against driving over a bus stop itself.



If you took a left hand turn and drove in the bus lane all the way past "Rusty Roof" thats a violation. The bus lane ends where you can see the bus and the orange lines. But a very confusion road layout.


I didnt drive all the way down using the bus lane, thats the thing.

The first picture they show, shows that my drivers wheel was over the white lane, heading into the correct car lane, behind another vehicle, but it appears that already triggered the camera somehow? 





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  Reply # 1033528 29-Apr-2014 22:07
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I've had no luck in contesting fines with AT - almost as if they need an independent body to decide in these cases because clearly it's not entirely objective. Got done for parking in a clearway for 5 minutes. Took pictures showing them that there was no sign there indicating it was a clearway. No dice. Just paid it and went on with my life.

I hate AT with a passion.

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  Reply # 1033529 29-Apr-2014 22:09
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Peppery: I've had no luck in contesting fines with AT - almost as if they need an independent body to decide in these cases because clearly it's not entirely objective. Got done for parking in a clearway for 5 minutes. Took pictures showing them that there was no sign there indicating it was a clearway. No dice. Just paid it and went on with my life.

I hate AT with a passion.


I know of people that work with them. Put it this way. The company has a high staff churn rate.







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  Reply # 1033531 29-Apr-2014 22:09
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thats where I'm conflicted.

My fine is $150 - the fact I believe there is an injustice here,  uncorrected if I pay, really gets me.


My only option now though is to contest in court.





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  Reply # 1033540 29-Apr-2014 22:15
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  Reply # 1033542 29-Apr-2014 22:15
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Aaroona: thats where I'm conflicted.

My fine is $150 - the fact I believe there is an injustice here,  uncorrected if I pay, really gets me.


My only option now though is to contest in court.


Problem is. Most people put up with the corporate bully like behavior* where they dont care. Just dish it out. If you are innocent protest it. Give them a lesson in geometry and be done with it.

*For those who pipe up about Vodafone, Telecom so fourth in relation to this we have services that you pay for not fines.





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  Reply # 1033543 29-Apr-2014 22:21
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Personally if I knew I was in the right and hadn't done what they allege, I would defend it on principle, as long as it doesn't cost. Who actually detected you. I would say that they probably expect most people just to pay these types of fines to make them go away, as they are probably impossible to prove either way.

 

You should ask the council what their full process is in disputing it, basically ask them all your questions you have asked here, and get your answer in writing. When dealing with any organisation of that type, I would make sure everything is in writing.



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  Reply # 1033548 29-Apr-2014 22:27
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Sorry MF, didnt know about the new forum.


Cost to defend is dependant; if I decide to go to court, and found guilty, costs get added (presumably court costs etc.), if it goes the other way, the fine is cancelled.


to give you guys more of an idea of the way I've used this road....

First picture looks exactly like this, except my car in place on the Prius (and my wheel is slightly more over the line)




Picture indicates here where the lane starts to expand, to what I interpret as the left turning lane (which has a bus stop in it... not uncommon)



and here is a vehicle, moving across the bus lan, in order to move into the left lane (wihich might i add is a PITA during rush hour)



The car is certainly not in the lane for 50 meters, in order to get to the left lane.


am I interpreting this correctly?










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  Reply # 1033551 29-Apr-2014 22:37
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Why don't you post us the pics?

Far easier to assess and understand the situation.






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  Reply # 1033553 29-Apr-2014 22:38
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In my experience they don't seem open to admiting they could be wrong or even discussing it. My wife got a parking ticket on a road with a really bizzare layout (which actually has parking spaces that contradict their own rules) and I sent photos, maps, measurements, plus other exapmles of inconsistent enforcement/rules around the area. I got an acknowledgement that they had received my letters but that was about it, they weren't willing to discuss any of it, just sent back info on how to arrange a court hearing and how it will cost more if found guilty. I was all willing to fight them, but unfortunately my wife was not so willing and it was her ticket so we paid and moved on. About a month later, all of a sudden a bunch more signs and road markings are erected all over the place, hmmmm funny that.



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  Reply # 1033554 29-Apr-2014 22:40
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I will post the actual photos tomorrow. I have to plug in the scanner to scan them in.

Gmaps was just easier cause it's there.





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