itxtme:

mattwnz:

itxtme: Here we go again!  The economics of funding the Americas cup has been well and truly proven.  Tax payer money is an emotive subject.  The fact is they (the government) makes more money than they fund.

With that being said, I think Larry is taking the piss, which is ironic given the lengths he went to sue Alinghi after what he deemed was grossly unfair Challenger rules

I don't know if it has been proven. If it has been, where? People can massage figures and stats to suit a point of view, as economic benefits are very difficult to measure, as there are so many things to consider. I think they were adding in benefits such as different countries boats being built in NZ. Which may have happened even if NZ didn't have out own team, as we have some of the better designers and boat building companies in the world But if NZ didn't have a team, does this mean that NZ wouldn't get those jobs for building other countries boats?
Economically, we may not make a loss, but is it a good return, especially as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars from overseas.

Bizarre, without going to every purchaser of a super yacht from NZ we would not be able to substantiate your claims.  If you truly believe the Americas cup has no bearing on the brand that is NZ nautical engineering you are deluded.  Maybe you could put forward your solid argument for how this industry pushes ahead when NZ is preforming well in Americas cup? I would like to think our government departments are not so corrupt that they can put out a document analyising the cost vs benefit, and they do, but for some reason its just  them "massaging figures".  Might need to get out the tin foil.


And you went and said it again "as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars".  I dont meant to sound patronising but if Jimmy has 3 beans and he plants those 3 beans beans and waits, a year later on that tree grows 10 beans.  Should Jimmy have planted those 3 beans?

Yes. But if we took the $35 million the government sunk into the last campaign and use it to market our super yacht market that money will go a long way....

New Zealand directly benefited from Government investment, with 85% of the total campaign budget being spent on our shores, totaling $153 million.

KiwiNZ: These teams are the promotion engines of well funded multi national corporations, when the Government is constantly cutting government services like health etc it should not be subsidizing these corporations. When we have for example rescue helicopter services, children's hospitals etc having to do public fundraising, raffles etc it is obscene that the Government would even remotely consider subsidizing multi millionaires to play with boats.

trig42:

KiwiNZ: These teams are the promotion engines of well funded multi national corporations, when the Government is constantly cutting government services like health etc it should not be subsidizing these corporations. When we have for example rescue helicopter services, children's hospitals etc having to do public fundraising, raffles etc it is obscene that the Government would even remotely consider subsidizing multi millionaires to play with boats.

Such an annoying argument, and it is trotted out every time the America's Cup comes up.

The government is NOT cutting health funding, it goes up every budget. Same with education, and Social Welfare.

What you are saying is that all the government should do is fund the core services (Health, Education, ???). Fine. Should they not spend money on roads? - after all, only rich people that can afford cars and petrol will use these roads. Oh, but businesses use roads, and they would go broke without them. Using Government funded roads to line their filthy capitalist pockets - how dare they?!

The Government funds heaps and heaps of things we don't all agree on (eg. The Dole, I have never been on the Dole, why should my tax dollars go towards it?? I am however happy for there to be a Social Welfare system in this country) - they must work out the cost/benefits of each of them, and obviously in the case of the America's Cup, they have worked out that investing $36m has more benefits than costs.

/rant.

itxtme:

mattwnz:

itxtme: Here we go again!  The economics of funding the Americas cup has been well and truly proven.  Tax payer money is an emotive subject.  The fact is they (the government) makes more money than they fund.

With that being said, I think Larry is taking the piss, which is ironic given the lengths he went to sue Alinghi after what he deemed was grossly unfair Challenger rules

I don't know if it has been proven. If it has been, where? People can massage figures and stats to suit a point of view, as economic benefits are very difficult to measure, as there are so many things to consider. I think they were adding in benefits such as different countries boats being built in NZ. Which may have happened even if NZ didn't have out own team, as we have some of the better designers and boat building companies in the world But if NZ didn't have a team, does this mean that NZ wouldn't get those jobs for building other countries boats?
Economically, we may not make a loss, but is it a good return, especially as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars from overseas.

Bizarre, without going to every purchaser of a super yacht from NZ we would not be able to substantiate your claims.  If you truly believe the Americas cup has no bearing on the brand that is NZ nautical engineering you are deluded.  Maybe you could put forward your solid argument for how this industry pushes ahead when NZ is preforming well in Americas cup? I would like to think our government departments are not so corrupt that they can put out a document analyising the cost vs benefit, and they do, but for some reason its just  them "massaging figures".  Might need to get out the tin foil.


And you went and said it again "as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars".  I dont meant to sound patronising but if Jimmy has 3 beans and he plants those 3 beans beans and waits, a year later on that tree grows 10 beans.  Should Jimmy have planted those 3 beans?

t92300:

itxtme:

mattwnz:

itxtme: Here we go again!  The economics of funding the Americas cup has been well and truly proven.  Tax payer money is an emotive subject.  The fact is they (the government) makes more money than they fund.

With that being said, I think Larry is taking the piss, which is ironic given the lengths he went to sue Alinghi after what he deemed was grossly unfair Challenger rules

I don't know if it has been proven. If it has been, where? People can massage figures and stats to suit a point of view, as economic benefits are very difficult to measure, as there are so many things to consider. I think they were adding in benefits such as different countries boats being built in NZ. Which may have happened even if NZ didn't have out own team, as we have some of the better designers and boat building companies in the world But if NZ didn't have a team, does this mean that NZ wouldn't get those jobs for building other countries boats?
Economically, we may not make a loss, but is it a good return, especially as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars from overseas.

Bizarre, without going to every purchaser of a super yacht from NZ we would not be able to substantiate your claims.  If you truly believe the Americas cup has no bearing on the brand that is NZ nautical engineering you are deluded.  Maybe you could put forward your solid argument for how this industry pushes ahead when NZ is preforming well in Americas cup? I would like to think our government departments are not so corrupt that they can put out a document analyising the cost vs benefit, and they do, but for some reason its just  them "massaging figures".  Might need to get out the tin foil.


And you went and said it again "as NZ is still borrowing billions of dollars".  I dont meant to sound patronising but if Jimmy has 3 beans and he plants those 3 beans beans and waits, a year later on that tree grows 10 beans.  Should Jimmy have planted those 3 beans?

What if he only gets 4 beans back? 
What if those beans dont grow or have a reduced crop? 
What if Jimmy borrows 2 of those 3 beans off his friend ben and agrees to pay back 5 beans? 

Bee: In what country are the roads used by only rich people???
Most people in NZ can afford a car...  Most people CANNOT afford an AC62!!!

If you are going to put up an argument at least put one that makes sense!

I am another huge fan that thinks Team NZ have just had one loss too many...

Apparently the Americas Cup does return more money to NZ than the Govt invests.. whether that is on paper only or actual reality I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the Govt doesn't make a profit on their investment.  

NZ is renowned for its quality boat builders etc...  If the NZ govt didnt invest in Team NZ and they didn't enter a boat, the other teams would still spend money in NZ anyways...