Time to Ditch the Auckland Harbour Bridge Tidal Flow?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Time to Ditch the Auckland Harbour Bridge Tidal Flow?

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altered-ego
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#1985463 29-Mar-2018 15:31

Lias: ... and it's going to get even worse, all the new options focus on garbage like cycle lanes instead of what we need, which is to bulldoze half of Te Aro and some bits of Hataitai/Kilbirnie and have a proper high speed 4 lane *way from the airport.

Roads are like garages and hard drives, if there is capacity, they will fill up.

Here is just one example describing this problems of induced demand. LMGTFY. Building more roads is not the solution.

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altered-ego
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#1985467 29-Mar-2018 15:38

FireEngine: Hmmm
Just found this: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2015/05/19/breaking-down-harbour-bridge-volumes/
"I suspect it will be very hard for the bridge to hit any maximum capacity as it is limited by the motorways either side of it."

Double hmmm.

While I have not read the article, the first graph projects that a second crossing will be required ±2021. That's only three years away. I don't see any construction going on nor do I hear plans about a second crossing. It would be great to see some updated numbers, especially as teh new AHB count (green line) is higher than the old AHB count (blue line).

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MikeB4

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#1985469 29-Mar-2018 15:49

Lias:

1eStar: You need your second tunnel to be built in Wellington. I thought works had begun on that? Maybe your present 'elected' government have squashed it?

The previous National government allowed the NIMBY brigade to kill off the Basin Reserve flyover, as a result of which everything else associated with the motorway extension was put on hold, including the Terrace and Mount Victoria tunnel duplication's. Now we have the greenies in power and it's going to get even worse, all the new options focus on garbage like cycle lanes instead of what we need, which is to bulldoze half of Te Aro and some bits of Hataitai/Kilbirnie and have a proper high speed 4 lane *way from the airport.

Off topic but the answer to Wellingtons traffic issues is not greater traffic capacity but better viable alternatives such Light Rail and safe cycling for example.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1985486 29-Mar-2018 16:29

MikeAqua:

Lias:

The previous National government allowed the NIMBY brigade to kill off the Basin Reserve flyover,

A judge killed that.

National let it happen, if they really wanted it to go ahead they could have forced legislation through to allow it.

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#1985488 29-Mar-2018 16:32

MikeB4:

Off topic but the answer to Wellingtons traffic issues is not greater traffic capacity but better viable alternatives such Light Rail and safe cycling for example.

Making current capacity longitudinally consistent by removing merge bottlenecks would make a big difference to flow.

So would some grade separation in places where streams of traffic have to cross each other.

I'm dubious about light rail, in addition to the heavy rail. But some dedicated bus-ways would be helpful.

Mike

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#1985489 29-Mar-2018 16:35

MikeB4:

Off topic but the answer to Wellingtons traffic issues is not greater traffic capacity but better viable alternatives such Light Rail and safe cycling for example.

I'm fine with rail as long as it takes away no existing road space (e.g. a subway/underground system, monorail, or what have you), I'm okay with a massive push on free EV charging points, but I draw the line at cycleways and "shared spaces", cyclists are a disease in need of a cure.

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#1985496 29-Mar-2018 16:46

Lias:

MikeB4:

Off topic but the answer to Wellingtons traffic issues is not greater traffic capacity but better viable alternatives such Light Rail and safe cycling for example.

I'm fine with rail as long as it takes away no existing road space (e.g. a subway/underground system, monorail, or what have you), I'm okay with a massive push on free EV charging points, but I draw the line at cycleways and "shared spaces", cyclists are a disease in need of a cure.

I agree to a point. I disagree regarding cyclists. As my fight for health and mobility progresses I will be joining the cycling community albeit with an E.Bike to assist me (not take over ) to get along.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lias

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#1985536 29-Mar-2018 17:38

MikeB4:

I agree to a point. I disagree regarding cyclists. As my fight for health and mobility progresses I will be joining the cycling community albeit with an E.Bike to assist me (not take over ) to get along.

Honestly they just frustrate the crap out of me, I feel like I'm forever having to pull out or swerve around them.

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#1985542 29-Mar-2018 17:52

It's probably time to ditch the harbour bridge and declare the North Shore its own sovereign country.

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#1985576 29-Mar-2018 18:18

The moving barrier on the bridge has not had a real effect is 10 years, I used to work in Glenfield and live in New Windsor, I regularly left work at 7pm only to crawl from Tristram Ave to the bridge, there are a couple of issues, mainly merging 5 lanes in to 3 is going to cause chaos.

By removing the movable median and having four lanes each way would improve traffic both ways, merging traffic is a major cause of the the clag, the other is not having sufficient exit space.

You can have all the modeling and engineers in the world but in reality cars are like electrons, they will take the easiest way.

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#1985595 29-Mar-2018 19:09

Lias:

MikeB4:

I agree to a point. I disagree regarding cyclists. As my fight for health and mobility progresses I will be joining the cycling community albeit with an E.Bike to assist me (not take over ) to get along.

Honestly they just frustrate the crap out of me, I feel like I'm forever having to pull out or swerve around them.

If only there were dedicated cycle lanes for them to cycle in so you wouldn't have to "pull out or swerve around them".......

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#1985636 29-Mar-2018 19:52

bmt:

If only there were dedicated cycle lanes for them to cycle in so you wouldn't have to "pull out or swerve around them".......

But those dedicated cycle lanes come at the expense of roads lanes or already hard to find car parks! If someone could magically take cyclists off the roads WITHOUT doing anything to further reduce the space available for cars, I'd happily support it. Unfortunately that's not the reality, it comes to "room for cars" or "room for cyclists" and I'm going to pick cars every day of the week.

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#1985656 29-Mar-2018 20:25

IcI:

Roads are like garages and hard drives, if there is capacity, they will fill up.

Here is just one example describing this problems of induced demand. LMGTFY. Building more roads is not the solution.

I hear this stated quite often, mostly by the green fraternity and I'm going to call "BS!" on this occasion.

Newsflash - roads aren't unique in their capacity to become congested to capacity. Ever been on the London underground at rush hour? How about the Singapore MRT or the Hong Kong rail network? They have something in common - filled to bursting with people - often smelly, sweaty, and less than 30cm from your face. Does that mean that it is senseless to build a mass transport sytem because it wil only get congested? Because that is just as logical as saying that building roads is not the solution.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have great public transport, or that we should rely on roads. But this anti-road dogma that is so ofthen spouted is just that - dogma.

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#1985686 29-Mar-2018 21:04

shk292:

IcI: Roads are like garages and hard drives, if there is capacity, they will fill up. ...
I hear this stated quite often, mostly by the green fraternity and I'm going to call "BS!" on this occasion. ...

Your opinion on this matter is noted.

shk292: ... Newsflash - roads aren't unique in their capacity to become congested to capacity. ...

Agreed. And you cite the underground as an example, it mention garages and hard drives. Going a bit philosophical here; we are like every other species, we consume all available resources and then either die or move on.

shk292: ... Ever been on the London underground at rush hour? ...

Yes

shk292: ... How about the Singapore MRT or the Hong Kong rail network? ...

shk292: ... They have something in common - filled to bursting with people ...

Just like roads, garages & hard drives, they will fill to available capacity.

shk292: ... Does that mean that it is senseless to build a mass transport sytem because it wil only get congested? ...

No, and both of us know that. That's why we are commenting on this subject.

shk292: ... Because that is just as logical as saying that building roads is not the solution. ...

No, actually it isn't. Both roads and public transport are solutions. We need both solutions. One of these two solutions is however better at moving large quantities of people at peak travel times.

shk292: ... But this anti-road dogma that is so ofthen spouted is just that - dogma.

And you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion was to provide a counter argument to the statement 'instead of what we need, which is to bulldoze half of Te Aro and some bits of Hataitai/Kilbirnie and have a proper high speed 4 lane *way from the airport'

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#1985806 30-Mar-2018 06:20

Lias:

bmt:

If only there were dedicated cycle lanes for them to cycle in so you wouldn't have to "pull out or swerve around them".......

But those dedicated cycle lanes come at the expense of roads lanes or already hard to find car parks! If someone could magically take cyclists off the roads WITHOUT doing anything to further reduce the space available for cars, I'd happily support it. Unfortunately that's not the reality, it comes to "room for cars" or "room for cyclists" and I'm going to pick cars every day of the week.

the whole point is about removing vehicles off the road, which ends up making your commute faster.

yes you hate cyclists, but they are a necessary evil who make your commute less congested.

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