Time to Ditch the Auckland Harbour Bridge Tidal Flow?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Time to Ditch the Auckland Harbour Bridge Tidal Flow?

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 221

Trusted

#232090 29-Mar-2018 09:25

This seems the most pointless cottage industry running the machines to move the barriers twice a day and back. I suspect $M's and perhaps up to 50 staff at a guess...

Why? The bridge is fed by a max of 4 lanes both North and South, they act as choke points so having 5 lanes in the priority direction on the bridge itself is of no benefit.

Meanwhile on the low priority direction, the huge amount of lane-changing caused by the 3 lane constriction (plus the lanes don't line up, they are up to 2 lanes out of alignment), and consequent capacity change over the bridge does cause its own additional level of congestion and traffic delay.

Thoughts?

Regards FireEngine

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

4962 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2638
Inactive user

#1985272 29-Mar-2018 09:58

Agreed. It is screwed approaching the bridge no matter if there is 5 or 3 lanes to choose from.

And then when the machine is running, people are scared of driving past the barrier machine at speed and dab the brakes causing issues going up/down the bridge itself.

Stick the barrier in the middle and just leave it there.

networkn

Networkn
32863 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15453

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1985274 29-Mar-2018 09:59

I am not expert on this personally, though I was on the fringe of this project by association and I can tell you the benefits are pretty concrete based on extensive traffic modelling and these moveable barriers are used a fair bit overseas.

I am unsure if they continue to review these based on Aucklands current traffic flows, but one assumes so, there are entire departments in AT who are responsible for this. It was done based on best practices at the time, though I can make no personal claim to understanding them or whether they are still current best practices.

1eStar

1604 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 375

#1985276 29-Mar-2018 10:00

Your 50+ staff might be slightly exaggerated...

The counter flow is building annually, so the advantages of tidal flow are diminishing with time.

However there is a technical reason why it is important that the traffic is kept moving over the bridge, ie that the traffic flow is managed to prevent congestion to the point of causing a stoppage...specifically the structural capacity of the bridge is such that the bridge could become overloaded should sufficiently dense heavy traffic volumes become stopped bumper to bumper on the bridge. The moveable barriers are just one of the tools that the bridge management team use to mitigate against that possibility.

tchart

2396 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 577

ID Verified

Trusted

#1985277 29-Mar-2018 10:01

Can we move it to Wellington so we can alter the flow of the Terrace tunnel?

Seriously what idiot decided it was a good idea to have one lane into Wellington CBD off the motorway (that is the primary route to the airport).

1eStar

1604 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 375

#1985284 29-Mar-2018 10:09

You need your second tunnel to be built in Wellington. I thought works had begun on that? Maybe your present 'elected' government have squashed it?

wellygary

8810 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5287

#1985305 29-Mar-2018 10:49

tchart:

Can we move it to Wellington so we can alter the flow of the Terrace tunnel?

Seriously what idiot decided it was a good idea to have one lane into Wellington CBD off the motorway (that is the primary route to the airport).

the 2-1 tunnel was seen as a stop gap solution, until the second tunnel was built, (the pillars for the second approach ramps are clear to see in the Clifton terrace car park next to the motorway.

But the tunnel opened in 1978, in 1979 the second oil shock doubled the prices of petrol, saw the introduction of carless days and many other methods to reduce consumption, so a second tunnel never seemed a priority, then came the changes of the 1980s,

The Govt tried to build a second tunnel as part of the "Tunnel link" urban motorway extension in 1990, but local opposition saw the entire project shelved, - the current "lets get wellington moving" project has re-proposed a 2nd tunnel,

Geekzone

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).

Lias

5655 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3978

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1985307 29-Mar-2018 10:51

1eStar: You need your second tunnel to be built in Wellington. I thought works had begun on that? Maybe your present 'elected' government have squashed it?

The previous National government allowed the NIMBY brigade to kill off the Basin Reserve flyover, as a result of which everything else associated with the motorway extension was put on hold, including the Terrace and Mount Victoria tunnel duplication's. Now we have the greenies in power and it's going to get even worse, all the new options focus on garbage like cycle lanes instead of what we need, which is to bulldoze half of Te Aro and some bits of Hataitai/Kilbirnie and have a proper high speed 4 lane *way from the airport.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 221

Trusted

#1985327 29-Mar-2018 11:02

networkn:

I am not expert on this personally, though I was on the fringe of this project by association and I can tell you the benefits are pretty concrete based on extensive traffic modelling and these moveable barriers are used a fair bit overseas.

I am unsure if they continue to review these based on Aucklands current traffic flows, but one assumes so, there are entire departments in AT who are responsible for this. It was done based on best practices at the time, though I can make no personal claim to understanding them or whether they are still current best practices.

Hmmm

Just found this: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2015/05/19/breaking-down-harbour-bridge-volumes/

"I suspect it will be very hard for the bridge to hit any maximum capacity as it is limited by the motorways either side of it."

Regards FireEngine

FireEngine

1223 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 221

Trusted

#1985340 29-Mar-2018 11:18

1eStar: Your 50+ staff might be slightly exaggerated...

The counter flow is building annually, so the advantages of tidal flow are diminishing with time.

However there is a technical reason why it is important that the traffic is kept moving over the bridge, ie that the traffic flow is managed to prevent congestion to the point of causing a stoppage...specifically the structural capacity of the bridge is such that the bridge could become overloaded should sufficiently dense heavy traffic volumes become stopped bumper to bumper on the bridge. The moveable barriers are just one of the tools that the bridge management team use to mitigate against that possibility.

50 maybe a little high but with two full shifts of operators, holiday and sick cover, management etc...

Pretty sure the bridge fills up with stationary or near-stationary traffic on occasion even now if there is an accident on either bridge departure lanes - ironically probably mostly caused by the lane-changing...

Regards FireEngine

stinger

628 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 169
Inactive user

#1985372 29-Mar-2018 12:47

tchart:

Can we move it to Wellington so we can alter the flow of the Terrace tunnel?

Seriously what idiot decided it was a good idea to have one lane into Wellington CBD off the motorway (that is the primary route to the airport).

Would having two lanes southbound in the morning make any material difference? I'd think the chock point is the Willis Street traffic lights, not the number of lanes in the tunnel. Meanwhile, two northbound lanes means it's free flowing on the motorway, as the nearest intersection are a long long away. Yeah, I know that PM peak means the motorway is a clusterfluck.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#1985380 29-Mar-2018 12:59

tchart:

Can we move it to Wellington so we can alter the flow of the Terrace tunnel?

Seriously what idiot decided it was a good idea to have one lane into Wellington CBD off the motorway (that is the primary route to the airport).

That used to happen and it was a pain in the butt. The Terrace tunnel is a glowing example of poor planning and foresight

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

gzt

18682 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7821

Lifetime subscriber

#1985397 29-Mar-2018 13:34

FireEngine:
Thoughts?

It's been a while since I was a regular on the bridge. I do recall many days where barrier siting was making a difference. Perhaps it is like many other traffic things, when you get to max capacity everywhere nothing will really make a difference.

jonb

1796 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 545

Trusted

#1985436 29-Mar-2018 14:50

It seems traffic flow is getting more and more equilibrium at peak. I think the main reason for keeping it at 3 lanes from North Shore in the PM is to form the traffic jam before the bridge to keep the spaghetti junction flowing more.

sidefx

3775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1295

Trusted

#1985443 29-Mar-2018 14:59

I too am by no means an expert but have been involved in projects that touch on traffic flow,etc, and I suspect it's easy to look at bits of a road-network in isolation and think this or that is wrong or stupid (I do it myself all the time ;D ) but without doing proper modelling I think it's fairly pointless to speculate... Still it's good to vent :)

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." | Octopus Energy | Sharesies
- Richard Feynman

MikeAqua

8024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3818

#1985445 29-Mar-2018 15:03

Lias:

The previous National government allowed the NIMBY brigade to kill off the Basin Reserve flyover,

A judge killed that.

Mike

1 | 2 | 3 | 4