Intersection Road Rules

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Master Geek
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#2062524 25-Jul-2018 19:08

Until the very resent arrival of cycle lanes was there ever a situation where, when turning left you would have to check for other vehicles on your left going straight ahead?

One now has to not only give way to the right and look for pedestrians crossing but also look left in you blind spot/behind you for cyclists.

To me it almost feels unnatural. Almost like the lanes are arranged in the wrong order.

Science is but organized ignorance.

Oblivian

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#2062525 25-Jul-2018 19:10

jurgensp99:

Until the very resent arrival of cycle lanes was there ever a situation where, when turning left you would have to check for other vehicles on your left going straight ahead?

One now has to not only give way to the right and look for pedestrians crossing but also look left in you blind spot/behind you for cyclists.

To me it almost feels unnatural. Almost like the lanes are arranged in the wrong order.

The hideously expensive segregation lanes in CHC now all have red lefts for cars for the first part of the cycle when the bikes get red. Causes many red faces of drivers when noones using them out of peak hrs.

vexxxboy

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#2062542 25-Jul-2018 19:49

the problem to this rule is roundabouts and the idiot cyclists who think it's ok to do the same thing without a cycle lane, just speed up ignore the cars with left indicators on and go straight through just hoping the car sees them and brakes as the bike goes straight ahead .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

nickb800

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#2062549 25-Jul-2018 20:08

Oblivian:
nickb800:
You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

Possibly referring to this sort of carry on. I got another one somewhere where 13 cars use it.. And its totally unsafe for those turning left legitimately AT the turn when someone rips down the inside like a bat out of hell

Note the kids all got pressured to get out of the lane when they are totally entitled to use it and the cars not.

Is that chch? Think I know the one. Problem is those cars aren't even using the 50m grace, they're starting well out from the intersection. If you wait to turn left at the last minute (where you're meant to) then it can be impossible to find a gap!

Batman

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#2062570 25-Jul-2018 20:35

mclean:

Recently an accident happened at this intersection when a car turning left collided with a cyclist going straight through. The cycle ran into the turning car more-or-less in the B-pillar/rear door area.

It's clear that a car crossing a cycle lane (to enter a driveway for example) has to give way to any cycles in the lane. At intersections a lot of drivers assume the left-turning lane gives them right-of-way to turn left. But it seems that in fact you have to give way to traffic in the inside lane and behind you, which in heavy traffic or poor weather can be mighty hard to spot.

What isn't clear to me whether lanes actually exist in "intersections" where there are no markings. If they do then in this situation the turning lane and the straight-through cycle lane must cross over each other, which doesn't seem a sensible lane arrangement.

Any thoughts?

One of the umpteen reasons why cycle lanes are so dangerous in NZ.

Bung

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#2062594 25-Jul-2018 21:31

nickb800:
Bung:

The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

What do you mean block the lane? It may be that I have to wait momentarily for pedestrians. In an ideal world the council would have dropped a hint to cyclists by crossing the lanes as described by another poster. I'm not cutting anyone off I'm just making them pass me on my right. I do not think the intent of the rule was for a car to be stranded in the left lane with a stream of bikes passing on the inside.

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mattwnz

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#2062714 25-Jul-2018 23:48

Batman:

One of the umpteen reasons why cycle lanes are so dangerous in NZ.

Agree. That is one reason I think my local town intentionally removed the the cycle symbols from them, and turn them basically into parking lanes. Before cycle lanes, we as cyclists had to pay attention, as to where we thought cars may turn or pull out. Now in Wellington, I see cyclists on cycle lanes just rip past driveways with cars coming out at huge speed, and have seen several almost get knocked over, as visibility around the corners is so poor for both cyclist and for the car coming out of a driveways, due to these lanes being on the edge of the road , or on footpaths. It all just seems really bizarre based on some of the close calls I have witnessed, and surprised there aren't more accidents. I wouldn't cycle on the Wellington CBD ones as it all just looks too risky.

nickb800

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#2062728 26-Jul-2018 05:58

Bung:
nickb800:
Bung:

The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

What do you mean block the lane? It may be that I have to wait momentarily for pedestrians. In an ideal world the council would have dropped a hint to cyclists by crossing the lanes as described by another poster. I'm not cutting anyone off I'm just making them pass me on my right. I do not think the intent of the rule was for a car to be stranded in the left lane with a stream of bikes passing on the inside.

That's obviously not the intent, but it's an unintended consequence. You're only allowed to cross the lane for the minimum length to perform the manouvere - waiting for pedestrians isn't really performing the manouvere. Forcing cyclists to merge out of their lane so you don't get stranded is kinda making your problem someone else's

scuwp

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#2062736 26-Jul-2018 07:15

Why can't we all just get along? Courtesy, consideration, common sense, and patience are sadly lacking in our DNA, present company excepted of course!

If a car pulls up past a cyclist and immediately turns left in front of them, then the car driver is a nob-head. If the cyclist under-takes (for want of a better term) the car while it's turning or indicating to turn left then the cyclist is a nob-head.

The cycle lane is a red herring. The same situation would apply if the cycle lane wasn't there, so blaming the road layout is pointless.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

MikeAqua

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#2062760 26-Jul-2018 08:47

With modern cars having such thick roof pillars there is signification blind spot, which is dangerous when turning left across cycle lanes. It isn't enough to briefly check the mirrors you have to keep an eye on the cycle lane ahead and behind for a while as you approach the cycle lane and ideally turn your head and look (although that has it's issues too).

If I see a cyclist approaching briskly from well behind me and I'm concerned he will be beside me at the turn point, I put my indicator on and move into the cycle lane at about the 30m mark. If he is behind but close, I back off the speed and let him pass.

It can be bit of a crap-shoot if the cyclist also slows.

When I'm cycling, I slow down to make sure I'm not beside a vehicle when it turns. Physics doesn't care about right of way.

Mike

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#2062774 26-Jul-2018 09:19

scuwp:

Why can't we all just get along? Courtesy, consideration, common sense, and patience are sadly lacking in our DNA, present company excepted of course!

If a car pulls up past a cyclist and immediately turns left in front of them, then the car driver is a nob-head. If the cyclist under-takes (for want of a better term) the car while it's turning or indicating to turn left then the cyclist is a nob-head.

The cycle lane is a red herring. The same situation would apply if the cycle lane wasn't there, so blaming the road layout is pointless.

Yes that would be nice. If we all get along. But I am not risking my life hoping that exactly 100% of the cars want to get along with me. All I need is ONE car and my life is over. Mind you, still cycle, but I assume every car is out there to kill me, as they daringly post on facebook. Referred a few posts to the police who don't seem to want to care. If someone makes a life threat, shouldn't the police take it seriously!

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mclean

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#2062796 26-Jul-2018 09:41

nickb800:
Bung:The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

Where there's a lane marked for a left-turn then you must be in that lane when you approach the intersection to make a left turn. Rule (2.4) applies, doesn't it? The Road Code, which admittedly isn't the law, seems to reinforce this.

MikeAqua

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#2062803 26-Jul-2018 09:50

Batman:

If someone makes a life threat, shouldn't the police take it seriously!

Might be hard to prosecute if it isn't a specific threat.

Mike

scuwp

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#2062811 26-Jul-2018 10:06

MikeAqua:

With modern cars having such thick roof pillars there is signification blind spot, which is dangerous when turning left across cycle lanes. It isn't enough to briefly check the mirrors you have to keep an eye on the cycle lane ahead and behind for a while as you approach the cycle lane and ideally turn your head and look (although that has it's issues too).

If I see a cyclist approaching briskly from well behind me and I'm concerned he will be beside me at the turn point, I put my indicator on and move into the cycle lane at about the 30m mark. If he is behind but close, I back off the speed and let him pass.

It can be bit of a crap-shoot if the cyclist also slows.

When I'm cycling, I slow down to make sure I'm not beside a vehicle when it turns. Physics doesn't care about right of way.

No such thing as blind spots...only drivers who don't look properly.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Coil

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#2062818 26-Jul-2018 10:18

scuwp:

MikeAqua:

With modern cars having such thick roof pillars there is signification blind spot, which is dangerous when turning left across cycle lanes. It isn't enough to briefly check the mirrors you have to keep an eye on the cycle lane ahead and behind for a while as you approach the cycle lane and ideally turn your head and look (although that has it's issues too).

If I see a cyclist approaching briskly from well behind me and I'm concerned he will be beside me at the turn point, I put my indicator on and move into the cycle lane at about the 30m mark. If he is behind but close, I back off the speed and let him pass.

It can be bit of a crap-shoot if the cyclist also slows.

When I'm cycling, I slow down to make sure I'm not beside a vehicle when it turns. Physics doesn't care about right of way.

No such thing as blind spots...only drivers who don't look properly.

How sure are you of that statement? The vehicle below would take a super human with xray vision to stand to your statement.

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