Intersection Road Rules

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mclean

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#239593 25-Jul-2018 15:58

Recently an accident happened at this intersection when a car turning left collided with a cyclist going straight through. The cycle ran into the turning car more-or-less in the B-pillar/rear door area.

It's clear that a car crossing a cycle lane (to enter a driveway for example) has to give way to any cycles in the lane. At intersections a lot of drivers assume the left-turning lane gives them right-of-way to turn left. But it seems that in fact you have to give way to traffic in the inside lane and behind you, which in heavy traffic or poor weather can be mighty hard to spot.

What isn't clear to me whether lanes actually exist in "intersections" where there are no markings. If they do then in this situation the turning lane and the straight-through cycle lane must cross over each other, which doesn't seem a sensible lane arrangement.

Any thoughts?

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#2062387 25-Jul-2018 16:09

Isn't the answer "turning traffic must give way to traffic going straight?"

Not easy when that traffic is behind you or on the left hand side.

tripp

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#2062388 25-Jul-2018 16:11

If there are no markings i would expect other road users to follow the rules are be behind you and wait till you turn left.

openmedia

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#2062392 25-Jul-2018 16:16

There is no give way on the bike lane so the bike has priority if they are going straight ahead.

Ultimately there are two issues

There should be a give way on the bike lane for safety reasons
A lot of bike riders will ignore the give way rule anyway

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LennonNZ

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#2062393 25-Jul-2018 16:18

https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/resources/can-you-use-cycle-lane-when-turning/

"Cycles have the right-of-way in this lane. If there are cycles waiting to go forward, you must give way to them before you can turn left."

Technically ( as far as I can tell) the bike Lane seems to be a legal lane and thus as it is on the left of a car lane the cycle (in a cycle lane) has right of way to go straight ahead before the car goes left.

cruxis

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#2062413 25-Jul-2018 16:27

when there is no markings it would become overtaking on the left and the cyclist would be at fault. in the pic there is a cycle lane so car is at fault for failing to check the cycle lane was clear.

gzt

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#2062414 25-Jul-2018 16:30

I have to ask, in reality was the car even indicating?

It is irrelevant to the give way question.

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mclean

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#2062427 25-Jul-2018 16:45

LennonNZ:

https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/resources/can-you-use-cycle-lane-when-turning/

"Cycles have the right-of-way in this lane. If there are cycles waiting to go forward, you must give way to them before you can turn left."

Technically ( as far as I can tell) the bike Lane seems to be a legal lane and thus as it is on the left of a car lane the cycle (in a cycle lane) has right of way to go straight ahead before the car goes left.

In this case the cyclist wasn't waiting. I guess if a cyclist WAS waiting then they would logically wait in the green cycle area in front of the turning lane, so that the crossing of paths wouldn't happen. That's what I would do anyway.

For sure the car can't go in the cycle lane. Having said that, if the cycle and the car had been in the same lane then this accident probably wouldn't have happened.

nickb800

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#2062468 25-Jul-2018 17:25

I wouldn't say you have right of way to turn left unless you had a green turning arrow - a general green means turn left with caution, giving way to, for instance, pedestrians with the green man crossing a side road.

Having a give way on the cycle lane, while solving the safety issue, would make the cycle lane redundant as you'd be better off biking in the vehicle lane (in terms of time).

Unfortunately these sorts of lanes have been introduced since many of us got our licences (I'm under 30 and these weren't common when I learnt, it's not a dig at oldies). We just need to treat them the same as any other lane - check the mirror and blindspot before turning into it. Given the veracity of police trying to find the offending driver though the media in this case, it would seem they perceive it as black and white

Oblivian

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#2062487 25-Jul-2018 17:54

What else is there to do right outside the 2nd largest city airport loaded with 8 rental companies but throw in some very confusing 5-lane wide intersections and 2 lane wide roundabouts with 3 lane entry for tourists to not know better at...

Seen my videos of the other end of the airport exit (roundabout)? It's comical.

For reference, the entry point to the right of this intersection, and other entry points all have 'please dismount' or redirection indicators and small island/safe zones to keep you away from it...

davidcole

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#2062506 25-Jul-2018 18:34

Even in a cycle lane situation like that I’d be more tempted to sit in front of the car to go straight ahead. And if I was riding up from behind I’d probably slow down and let the car go first.

They’re very unlikely to see you as most drivers only look for the same if not bigger than themselves. And while the law might be on your side, mass and speed isnt.

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Bung

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#2062507 25-Jul-2018 18:39

LennonNZ:
https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/resources/can-you-use-cycle-lane-when-turning/

"Cycles have the right-of-way in this lane. If there are cycles waiting to go forward, you must give way to them before you can turn left."

Technically ( as far as I can tell) the bike Lane seems to be a legal lane and thus as it is on the left of a car lane the cycle (in a cycle lane) has right of way to go straight ahead before the car goes left.

The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

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nickb800

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#2062512 25-Jul-2018 18:56

Bung:

The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

Oblivian

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#2062515 25-Jul-2018 18:58

Bung:

The Road User Rule covering use of lanes (2.3) says you can use a special lane eg cycle lane for a maximum of 50m if you are turning. There is a particular corner in Wgtn where I do that to make sure that nothing tries shooting up the inside when I slow down.

Often the 'can be crossed' area is indicated on cycle and other lanes by a dashed break in them

Much like this (its green now...) https://goo.gl/maps/D5jaUc6CVZw

Oblivian

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#2062522 25-Jul-2018 19:07

nickb800:
You missed the bit before it talks about the 50m maximum - about crossing the lane for only the minimum length necessary to perform the manouvere. Sounds like you're having no problems performing the turn without crossing the lane, but choosing to block the lane instead? Could you just remember to check your mirror before turning?

Possibly referring to this sort of carry on. I got another one somewhere where 13 cars use it.. And its totally unsafe for those turning left legitimately AT the turn when someone rips down the inside like a bat out of hell

Note the kids all got pressured to get out of the lane when they are totally entitled to use it and the cars not.

scuwp

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#2062523 25-Jul-2018 19:08

Car turning left must give way to traffic travelling straight through, however if the cyclist came up behind the car while it was already turning or indicating to turn there could be an argument that the cyclist passed in an unsafe manner. As a cyclist self-preservation would kick in and there is no way on earth I would put myself beside a car in this situation, always in front or behind.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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