Nissan LEAF - General

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89 posts

Master Geek
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#2524980 17-Jul-2020 20:47

I bought this* to connect my 2014 leaf to my 16A caravan socket.

*The one I bought (now discontinued?) somehow regularly pulled over 16A and eventually melted my caravan socket + the end of the EVSE. My sparky was nice enough to replace the socket out of his own pocket (verifying along the way that everything was installed and rated ok), and OEM audio went half way and replaced my EVSE, but didn't offer to pay for the socket repair. OEM audio eventually stopped communicating with me. Not sure if due to covid or just hoping I'd go away.

The replacement has been working great and OEM audio were astonished that the original failed (apparently that's never happened before), so YMMV.

ermat

178 posts

Master Geek
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#2602286 11-Nov-2020 22:13

I have not see the fair go story regarding a leaf battery issue encountered after purchasing a used leaf, but what did hear reinforces my thoughts on ev batteries. That is the cost of batteries must be taken into consideration when owning an ev.
Not sure if it is correct but I heard the said owner was shocked upon hearing the cost of a new battery was quoted to her from Nissan at $121,000.
Can anyone confirm this ?

Dugimodo

168 posts

Master Geek
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#2602312 12-Nov-2020 00:10

Never heard that story, there's a youtube story about an Aussie who was quoted about $30k for a 24Kwh replacement battery you can find though. The thing that really hurts the leaf concept is if the battery gets to the point where it no longer has the range you need and the car is 10+ years old. It is not economical to spend $10k or so on a 10 year old car IMHO.

On the bright side there's a christchurch outfit https://evsenhanced.com/services/hv-battery-swaps-and-upgrades/ that does battery replacements and upgrades using recovered batteries from wrecked leafs.

They have partners all around the country and were quoting me around $9k to upgrade my 2013 leaf to a 30 kwh battery. Not worth it for me personally, but I was a bit tempted.

jonathan18

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#2602321 12-Nov-2020 05:15

ermat: I have not see the fair go story regarding a leaf battery issue encountered after purchasing a used leaf, but what did hear reinforces my thoughts on ev batteries. That is the cost of batteries must be taken into consideration when owning an ev.
Not sure if it is correct but I heard the said owner was shocked upon hearing the cost of a new battery was quoted to her from Nissan at $121,000.
Can anyone confirm this ?

It would have been way quicker to search for the story than typing the above!

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nissan-leaf-owner-range-anxiety-told-new-battery-13-000-car-would-cost-121-v1

DumKopf

75 posts

Master Geek
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#2602343 12-Nov-2020 07:17

Nissan never sold the car here, so you imagine the cost of getting Nissan NZ set up to start replacing batteries. Training, equipment etc. etc. The first replacement battery probably would cost over $100k.

It’s not in their best interest to replace batteries, so they aren’t going to work out market adjusted end user costs, they are just going to throw out the true cost of replacing one battery to scare people off buying used Japanese imports.

And of course when Fair Go catches up with them it was “an error” because they never did actual figures.

ermat

178 posts

Master Geek
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#2602347 12-Nov-2020 07:23

Yes, I could have searched the story but I am not at all surprised by its contents.
My intention with the question was to initiate discussion on this thread .
$13k added to the cost of a used leaf does alter the running cost of an ev some what if not considered when purchasing. That would buy a lot of petrol.

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tripper1000

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#2602424 12-Nov-2020 09:43

Do you factor in engine and gear box replacements when buying a used ICE? Most people don't even factor in servicing costs.

$13K wouldn't buy that much petrol if you do the maths - not much more (if any) than a Leaf battery lasts.

I've owned my Leaf for about 3 years. As well as having the pleasure of driving a car that is nicer to drive, I have netted savings of about $8k in fuel. Battery is down to 75% SoH having lost 10% so by the time I get to replacing it, the battery replacement will be more or less cost neutral base on $13k replacement - which is more than you can say for an ICE engine replacement. If I can get a 30Kw battery now for $9K (?sounds cheap?) I'm already in the cost neutral zone.

(Napkin Maths: 40,000km @ $4 per 100km = $1600. vs my 2L ICE 40,000 @ $24 per 100km = $9600. Admittedly savings will be significantly dulled once road user chargers come into effect. I've also avoided 4x ICE servicing at ~$200 each and half of a cambelt servicing at ~$500, so you could add another $1K in savings).

WRT the woman on Fair Go: Any trades-person who isn't interested in taking on your job will over-quote to put you off/make you go else where. Fair Go clientele often lack the acumen that the average shopper has to look after themselves.

duckInferno

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Master Geek
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#2602429 12-Nov-2020 09:52

DumKopf: Nissan never sold the car here, so you imagine the cost of getting Nissan NZ set up to start replacing batteries. Training, equipment etc. etc. The first replacement battery probably would cost over $100k.

Slight correction, they did sell the leaf NZ new for a while. However they likely didn't have to replace any batteries within those years.

Obraik

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#2602459 12-Nov-2020 10:34

ermat: Yes, I could have searched the story but I am not at all surprised by its contents.
My intention with the question was to initiate discussion on this thread .
$13k added to the cost of a used leaf does alter the running cost of an ev some what if not considered when purchasing. That would buy a lot of petrol.

Keep in mind that this is mostly a Leaf problem, not an EV problem. Nissan has not added any active cooling of the battery to the Leaf while nearly other EV manufacturer has - even the MG ZS EV has watercooling. Without that, the batteries degrade quicker. Something like a Kona, Niro, ZS, any Tesla, etc which all have battery cooling is unlikely to need to worry about a replacement.

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DumKopf

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Master Geek
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#2602505 12-Nov-2020 10:41

duckInferno:
DumKopf: Nissan never sold the car here, so you imagine the cost of getting Nissan NZ set up to start replacing batteries. Training, equipment etc. etc. The first replacement battery probably would cost over $100k.

Slight correction, they did sell the leaf NZ new for a while. However they likely didn't have to replace any batteries within those years.

Ah interesting, thanks for that.

old3eyes

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#2602511 12-Nov-2020 10:58

tripper1000:

Do you factor in engine and gear box replacements when buying a used ICE? Most people don't even factor in servicing costs.

$13K wouldn't buy that much petrol if you do the maths - not much more (if any) than a Leaf battery lasts.

I've owned my Leaf for about 3 years. As well as having the pleasure of driving a car that is nicer to drive, I have netted savings of about $8k in fuel. Battery is down to 75% SoH having lost 10% so by the time I get to replacing it, the battery replacement will be more or less cost neutral base on $13k replacement - which is more than you can say for an ICE engine replacement. If I can get a 30Kw battery now for $9K (?sounds cheap?) I'm already in the cost neutral zone.

(Napkin Maths: 40,000km @ $4 per 100km = $1600. vs my 2L ICE 40,000 @ $24 per 100km = $9600. Admittedly savings will be significantly dulled once road user chargers come into effect. I've also avoided 4x ICE servicing at ~$200 each and half of a cambelt servicing at ~$500, so you could add another $1K in savings).

WRT the woman on Fair Go: Any trades-person who isn't interested in taking on your job will over-quote to put you off/make you go else where. Fair Go clientele often lack the acumen that the average shopper has to look after themselves.

How often do you hear of people replacing engines and transmissions these days in low mileage used ICEV Leafs or any car for that . Yoiu can do a lot of mileage in the $13 grand used ICE car these days

Regards,

Old3eyes

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SaltyNZ

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#2602519 12-Nov-2020 11:07

old3eyes:

How often do you hear of people replacing engines and transmissions these days in low mileage used ICEV Leafs or any car for that . Yoiu can do a lot of mileage in the $13 grand used ICE car these days

As annoying as this situation is for us trailblazers, it isn't likely to be a long term problem. As the batteries get bigger their effective life will rapidly approach the life of the vehicle. If a 60kWh battery degrades to 50%, it's got the capacity that my car had fresh from the factory. Ten years down the line when it gets to that point, that car's going to have several hundred thousand km on it, with a battery that's still quite usable for everything but a really long trip, and you told me to drive to Wellington in an ICE car with 300,000km on it, I'd look at you doubtfully too.

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ermat

178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19

#2602524 12-Nov-2020 11:13

old3eyes:
tripper1000:

Do you factor in engine and gear box replacements when buying a used ICE? Most people don't even factor in servicing costs.

$13K wouldn't buy that much petrol if you do the maths - not much more (if any) than a Leaf battery lasts.

I've owned my Leaf for about 3 years. As well as having the pleasure of driving a car that is nicer to drive, I have netted savings of about $8k in fuel. Battery is down to 75% SoH having lost 10% so by the time I get to replacing it, the battery replacement will be more or less cost neutral base on $13k replacement - which is more than you can say for an ICE engine replacement. If I can get a 30Kw battery now for $9K (?sounds cheap?) I'm already in the cost neutral zone.

(Napkin Maths: 40,000km @ $4 per 100km = $1600. vs my 2L ICE 40,000 @ $24 per 100km = $9600. Admittedly savings will be significantly dulled once road user chargers come into effect. I've also avoided 4x ICE servicing at ~$200 each and half of a cambelt servicing at ~$500, so you could add another $1K in savings).

WRT the woman on Fair Go: Any trades-person who isn't interested in taking on your job will over-quote to put you off/make you go else where. Fair Go clientele often lack the acumen that the average shopper has to look after themselves.

How often do you hear of people replacing engines and transmissions these days in low mileage used ICEV Leafs or any car for that . Yoiu can do a lot of mileage in the $13 grand used ICE car these days

Yes that's my point, probably average 6 years fuel on smaller ICE. How many years left in a leaf battery after 6 years ?

Dugimodo

168 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 93

#2602536 12-Nov-2020 11:30

I should mention the $9k I was quoted included trading in my 24kwh battery which was still at 78% at the time, the lower your battery soh the less value it has as a trade.

As much as I loved my leaf and the year I had with it I have now sold it and bought a hybrid, I don't want to own 2 cars and I need a bit more range to live with an EV as my only transport. Once second hand EV's with > 200km range become affordable I'm definitely going back to one.

My leaf did do everything I wanted on a daily basis while being very cheap to run and convenient but I like to do longer trips now and again and I couldn't quite live with it. What sealed it's fate for me was needing to go to Tauranga from Hamilton. Cost me at least 90 mins of extra time and $23 in quick charging. It would honestly be cheaper to do it in an economical ICE car or at least close to the same. Yes you can rent a car, but that is not convenient or cheap and has it's own issues.

For anyone wondering;

Hamilton - Tirau, 40 min to charge to full

Tirau - Mt Maunganui, 30 min to charge to 90%,

Mt Maunganui - Tirau, about 20 min to get enough charge to get home

morrisk

367 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2602545 12-Nov-2020 11:42

Not sure why nobody seems to factor in the no emissions benefit when talking about EVs. Climate change is here and costing us considerable money e.g. Napier this week - yet we are still just thinking about how much we personally might save or not or whether we may find it inconvenient not to be able to travel 500km without stopping. So yes there are some differences between EVs and ICEs but the no emission one (and I am talking about over the whole cycle of production, to use, to end life) seems to be me to the one that we need to be putting the most value on.

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