EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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MikeB4
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#1699278 6-Jan-2017 11:38

Linuxluver:

Chinese-backed Faraday Future have presented their electric concept car - the FF91 - in real life at CES 2017.

It looks good. They are taking reservations for only US$5000 / each. They claim to have had over 64,000 reservations in just 36 hours. But you have to be in the US, Canada or China.

1050hp / 783kw (over 1800 newton meters of shaft torque)

610km range (378+ miles EPA adjusted) at high speeds.

775km range at 90kph.

1200km range in city driving.

Auto-valet. You get out of the car and tell it to go find a park. You then either summon it when required or tell it what time to come back and pick you up.

Facial recognition / scanning to access the vehicle.

Loads of other stuff......

Car auto-adjusts settings to match the individual driver's preferences.

130kWh battery (in largest config)

(Clearly not a low-cost family car).

Yes please

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

jarledb

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#1699298 6-Jan-2017 12:13

Linuxluver:

Chinese-backed Faraday Future have presented their electric concept car - the FF91 - in real life at CES 2017.

It looks good. They are taking reservations for only US$5000 / each.

Only?! Isn't/wasn't the Tesla Model 3 reservation $1000 USD?

They claim to have had over 64,000 reservations in just 36 hours. But you have to be in the US, Canada or China.

1050hp / 783kw (over 1800 newton meters of shaft torque)

610km range (378+ miles EPA adjusted) at high speeds.

775km range at 90kph.

1200km range in city driving.

Auto-valet. You get out of the car and tell it to go find a park. You then either summon it when required or tell it what time to come back and pick you up.

Facial recognition / scanning to access the vehicle.

I can't help but think that this is going to be serious vapourware. Would love to be proven wrong. Sure wouldn't bet $5000 USD of my own money.

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Linuxluver

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#1699324 6-Jan-2017 13:01

jarledb:
Linuxluver:

Chinese-backed Faraday Future have presented their electric concept car - the FF91 - in real life at CES 2017.

It looks good. They are taking reservations for only US$5000 / each.

Only?! Isn't/wasn't the Tesla Model 3 reservation $1000 USD?

They claim to have had over 64,000 reservations in just 36 hours. But you have to be in the US, Canada or China.

1050hp / 783kw (over 1800 newton meters of shaft torque)

610km range (378+ miles EPA adjusted) at high speeds.

775km range at 90kph.

1200km range in city driving.

Auto-valet. You get out of the car and tell it to go find a park. You then either summon it when required or tell it what time to come back and pick you up.

Facial recognition / scanning to access the vehicle.

I can't help but think that this is going to be serious vapourware. Would love to be proven wrong. Sure wouldn't bet $5000 USD of my own money.

I agree. The "only" was tongue-in-cheek. :-)

Still.....It could be awesome.

They demo-ed the auto-valet in the unveiling.

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jarledb

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#1699367 6-Jan-2017 13:45

BTW: The Faraday Future reminds me of Citroen 9. Even the logo on the front could be mistaken for a Citroen logo..

PhantomNVD

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#1705568 19-Jan-2017 06:08

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11784394

And how would this affect NZ drivers who are often it of signal in our rural areas?

trig42

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#1705632 19-Jan-2017 09:06

PhantomNVD: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11784394

And how would this affect NZ drivers who are often it of signal in our rural areas?

They'd be in trouble, but only if they didn't have their keyfob with them. Take you car key with you when you go for a drive and it won't be a problem.

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Behodar

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#1705636 19-Jan-2017 09:19

It's a bit disingenuous to blame it on "app failure" - no data-reliant app can work when you don't have a data connection!

Linuxluver

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#1705638 19-Jan-2017 09:27

The latest electric car stats are out on the Dept of Stats we site.

These include all known vehicles up to the end of December 2016.

Total EV count is now 2430, up from 1037 a year ago.

Of the 2430 total, 856 are plug-in hybrids, like the Mitsubishi Outlander and 1574 are battery-electric cars.

The full stats are here.

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Linuxluver

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#1706070 19-Jan-2017 20:32

The government today released the list of projects that have been approved for funding in support of electric vehicle uptake.

On the list is money for the Thames Coromandel District Council to establish 3 additional EV fast charging stations around the peninsula in Coromandel Town, Tairua and Whitianga. Along with the existing fast charger in Thames, this will make virtually of the Coromandel accessible to EVs including those with relatively limited range.

https://beehive.govt.nz/release/projects-will-stimulate-electric-vehicle-uptake#.WIAAOewKGlo.facebook

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Scott3

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#1706128 19-Jan-2017 22:43

In my mind the biggest EV news today is the release of the first reviews of the Renault Zoe 41kWh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEIzORzvbdQ&t=1s

Review is pretty boring (car unchanged apart from a software upgrade to the Nav), but the takeaway is quite big.

Consider that the Zoe was released with a 22kWh battery just 3 years ago. It is now offered with a 41kWh battery that is only 15kg's heavier than the original. That is a long way to come in 3 years.

As you would expect you can drive a subcompact car a long way on a big battery (around 300km)

Also note that the zoe is offered with a Awesome AC charger (43kW or 22kW depending on spec), but lacks the 50kW DC charge port nissan leaf users are used to.

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#1706221 20-Jan-2017 09:25

The other EV fast charging stations approved for funding are on SH5 between Taupo and Napier.

I've driven this route in a 30kWh Nissan LEAF and it is do-able on a single-full charge - both downhill to Napier and uphill to Taupo. But a 24kw LEAF or similar definitely needs to charge along the way....but only a little bit. It's a very close thing. That gap / role has been filled by stopping for an hour or two at either the Rangitikai Hotel or the Tarawera Cafe. A DC fast charger anywhere near the mid-point of this drive would make a drive to Napier in an EV about 15 mins longer than in a petrol car.....barely time for a takeaway coffee or toilet break - pick one, you can't have both. :-)

"Unison Networks Ltd: Two fast charging stations for electric vehicles to create the Electric Thermal Explorer Highway between Taupo and Napier Unison Networks will install two fast chargers on the ‘Thermal Explorer Highway’ route between Taupo and Napier. As well as being a popular tourism route, this highway is also the primary transport link between the Central North Island and Hawke’s Bay region. This project is expected to remove a barrier to EV uptake in the Central North Island and promote the use of New Zealand’s abundant renewable electricity to the tourist market."

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Linuxluver

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#1706224 20-Jan-2017 09:30

Scott3:

In my mind the biggest EV news today is the release of the first reviews of the Renault Zoe 41kWh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEIzORzvbdQ&t=1s

Review is pretty boring (car unchanged apart from a software upgrade to the Nav), but the takeaway is quite big.

Consider that the Zoe was released with a 22kWh battery just 3 years ago. It is now offered with a 41kWh battery that is only 15kg's heavier than the original. That is a long way to come in 3 years.

As you would expect you can drive a subcompact car a long way on a big battery (around 300km)

Also note that the zoe is offered with a Awesome AC charger (43kW or 22kW depending on spec), but lacks the 50kW DC charge port nissan leaf users are used to.

I'd go a Zoe with the 43kw AC fast charger. That would be good enough. But there does seem to be a comparison with the LEAF that says the Zoe will do fewer charges, but for longer. Overall, you don't really save much time....and certainly not at 22kw. The LEAF would be a better buy even with the lower range simply because it charges so much faster with 50kw CHAdeMo - 50% in about 15mins (below 80%). My 30kWh LEAF has done 4% to 94% in 38 mins at a Charge.Net Veefil fast charger in Lower Hutt. Long compared to petrol.......but much faster - like 3 times? - than the Zoe at 22kw.

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Scott3

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#1706773 21-Jan-2017 00:07

Linuxluver:

I'd go a Zoe with the 43kw AC fast charger. That would be good enough. But there does seem to be a comparison with the LEAF that says the Zoe will do fewer charges, but for longer. Overall, you don't really save much time....and certainly not at 22kw. The LEAF would be a better buy even with the lower range simply because it charges so much faster with 50kw CHAdeMo - 50% in about 15mins (below 80%). My 30kWh LEAF has done 4% to 94% in 38 mins at a Charge.Net Veefil fast charger in Lower Hutt. Long compared to petrol.......but much faster - like 3 times? - than the Zoe at 22kw.

Issue you would find is the lack of 43kW AC public chargers around.

I think at 43kW AC the charger needs a tethered cord (I think the "bring your own" cord's top out at 3x32A or 22kW). A few of the lines company chargers are like this (three cords for three plug types) The one in the below photo is the "Te Kauwhata WEL Networks Fast Charger"

Government fast charging recommendation for public installations is: 1x CHAdeMo (DC, roughly 50 kW), 1x CCS type 2 (DC, roughly 50 kw (but standard supports 100 kW+), 1x type 2 socket 22kW. This is basically what you photographed in Whakatane (although I can't see what type the CCS plug is).

The only brand backing 43kW AC fast charging is renault, but only some of their cars support this. For example I have heard that all the NZ New Zoe's in stock at the moment only support 22kW. All other brands seem to offer DC fast charging, or slow charging only.

The two powertrains of the Zoe are the the R90 and the Q90. The Q90 is slightly more expensive (GBP900 for top spec config), and offers a tiny bit more motor power output (66kW instead of 65kW), and of course can charge at 43kW rather than 22kW. The downside is that the Q90 variant is less efficient and is rated for 8% less range under the optimistic NEDC cycle. The cost & lower efficiency (and hence loss range) will mean a lot of buyers will chose the R90 powertrain I think. Also the massive 43kW charger in the Zoe had issues in the past with very low charging efficiency at low charge rates (like 8A or 10A single phase) to the point where charging took a lot longer than expected. I don't know if this has been resolved, but could turn buyer's away from it anyway.

Unless 43kW AC fast charging capable cars become popular, there is little incentive for anybody to roll out good infrastructure. (It is important to note that AC chargers are very cheap compared to DC chargers as the car does all the work)

As a long term thing, 43kW AC is the limit of the IEC 62196 Type 2 standard. CCS is currently capable of 100 kW+ (with 350kW+ ability in discussion stage) . In a decade or two when 100kWh batteries are common, 43kW charging will be a bit too slow for fast charging.

Linuxluver

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#1706861 21-Jan-2017 11:27

Scott3:

Linuxluver:

I'd go a Zoe with the 43kw AC fast charger. That would be good enough. But there does seem to be a comparison with the LEAF that says the Zoe will do fewer charges, but for longer. Overall, you don't really save much time....and certainly not at 22kw. The LEAF would be a better buy even with the lower range simply because it charges so much faster with 50kw CHAdeMo - 50% in about 15mins (below 80%). My 30kWh LEAF has done 4% to 94% in 38 mins at a Charge.Net Veefil fast charger in Lower Hutt. Long compared to petrol.......but much faster - like 3 times? - than the Zoe at 22kw.

Issue you would find is the lack of 43kW AC public chargers around.

I think at 43kW AC the charger needs a tethered cord (I think the "bring your own" cord's top out at 3x32A or 22kW). A few of the lines company chargers are like this (three cords for three plug types) The one in the below photo is the "Te Kauwhata WEL Networks Fast Charger"

Government fast charging recommendation for public installations is: 1x CHAdeMo (DC, roughly 50 kW), 1x CCS type 2 (DC, roughly 50 kw (but standard supports 100 kW+), 1x type 2 socket 22kW. This is basically what you photographed in Whakatane (although I can't see what type the CCS plug is).

The only brand backing 43kW AC fast charging is renault, but only some of their cars support this. For example I have heard that all the NZ New Zoe's in stock at the moment only support 22kW. All other brands seem to offer DC fast charging, or slow charging only.

The two powertrains of the Zoe are the the R90 and the Q90. The Q90 is slightly more expensive (GBP900 for top spec config), and offers a tiny bit more motor power output (66kW instead of 65kW), and of course can charge at 43kW rather than 22kW. The downside is that the Q90 variant is less efficient and is rated for 8% less range under the optimistic NEDC cycle. The cost & lower efficiency (and hence loss range) will mean a lot of buyers will chose the R90 powertrain I think. Also the massive 43kW charger in the Zoe had issues in the past with very low charging efficiency at low charge rates (like 8A or 10A single phase) to the point where charging took a lot longer than expected. I don't know if this has been resolved, but could turn buyer's away from it anyway.

Unless 43kW AC fast charging capable cars become popular, there is little incentive for anybody to roll out good infrastructure. (It is important to note that AC chargers are very cheap compared to DC chargers as the car does all the work)

As a long term thing, 43kW AC is the limit of the IEC 62196 Type 2 standard. CCS is currently capable of 100 kW+ (with 350kW+ ability in discussion stage) . In a decade or two when 100kWh batteries are common, 43kW charging will be a bit too slow for fast charging.

Thanks for the all the additional information, Scott. Really good to know. Though 8% less of a lot more would still be better....So far, WEL and Unison (I think?) are the only operators installing the 43kw AC on their ABB charging units.

BTW....that's my LEAF in the photo. In fact, that's my photo. :-)

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Scott3

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#1706867 21-Jan-2017 11:48

What I was getting at is that there are currently 30 Renault Kangoo's (I would guess most are AIR NZ's doing airport duty), and 4 Renault Zoes. I think most of these are 22kW charging only.

I think a few people put 41 kWh Zoe's on order from the UK when they are first announced (I would expect them to arrive in March or april), but even then I would expect a a portion of buyers to opt for the 22kW charging variant (for longer range & lower cost).

The result will be a very small portion of the small NZ EV fleet having 43kW AC charge capability (a handful of cars only). Charge.net's vendor offers a 3 cord variant of the charger they use, but it must be hard to justify the cost for such a small number of cars.

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