Nissan LEAF - General

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Circumspice
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#1631941 16-Sep-2016 21:06

SumnerBoy:

So those with a Leaf and the OBD dongle, do you leave it plugged in 24x7 or do you take it out when not actively using it (via LeafSpy)?

I read somewhere that those dongles can drain your battery if left plugged in for long periods of time.

Apparently it only drains significantly if you leave it on AND its communicating with the app. I leave it plugged in 24x7 but turn it off when not driving (just in case!).

Some of my screenshots (2013 model):

Lost a bar within a week of purchase, which is when I got the dongle. When it's 100% SOH, it reports about 16.5 kWh. I'd have still bought the car, but SOH would've informed the pre-purchase conversation with dealer.

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#1631995 16-Sep-2016 23:53

paulchinnz:

Lost a bar within a week of purchase, which is when I got the dongle. When it's 100% SOH, it reports about 16.5 kWh. I'd have still bought the car, but SOH would've informed the pre-purchase conversation with dealer.

I think you may mean 100% SoC (state of charge) is 16.5kw?

At 100% SOH (state of health) LeafSpy will report about 22kWh at 100% SoC. The LEAF reserves about 2kWh to avoid going totally flat.

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#1632307 17-Sep-2016 19:39

Linuxluver:

paulchinnz:

Lost a bar within a week of purchase, which is when I got the dongle. When it's 100% SOH, it reports about 16.5 kWh. I'd have still bought the car, but SOH would've informed the pre-purchase conversation with dealer.

I think you may mean 100% SoC (state of charge) is 16.5kw?

At 100% SOH (state of health) LeafSpy will report about 22kWh at 100% SoC. The LEAF reserves about 2kWh to avoid going totally flat.

Quite right 100% SOC.

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#1635444 18-Sep-2016 15:08

So my gf is really concerned over the idea of buying a 2011 Leaf and then in 3 years time it will have hit that 8 year old battery life and be almost useless. Can anyone point me toward any sort of research on likely life after 8 years and what your own thoughts are on this problem? Obviously hard to understand exactly what's going to happen given that these cars are the first to have this problem and so far the replacement battery maket isn't really around yet.

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#1635671 19-Sep-2016 08:31

Willuknight:

We're in Christchurch, but i've been looking on trademe for anywhere because I don't mind flying up to drive something down.

Don't forget it's a bit more of a hassle to drive a Leaf long distances!

I've bought our last 3-4 cars in Akld, and have been happy to fly up and drive them back to PN; if I do the same when we get a Leaf I decided I'll be happy to pay a transport company to bring it down, given it'll take quite a while to make my way here in a car with a range of 120sh kms that then needs charging for quite some time. For some the extended road trip may be part of the pleasure, but I don't think it's my cuppa...

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#1635702 19-Sep-2016 09:30

Willuknight:

So my gf is really concerned over the idea of buying a 2011 Leaf and then in 3 years time it will have hit that 8 year old battery life and be almost useless. Can anyone point me toward any sort of research on likely life after 8 years and what your own thoughts are on this problem? Obviously hard to understand exactly what's going to happen given that these cars are the first to have this problem and so far the replacement battery maket isn't really around yet.

In all honesty, you would only buy a 2011 or 2012 LEAF to have the cheapest possible EV now and do it on the understanding the resale value will be poor because the cars - entirely due to the failing battery - have a poor outlook going forward. If you can come up with mid-$20s, you can avoid the whole issue and have a car that will have greater range and last a lot longer. I've already got 12,500km on mine and the battery is 100% SoH....and should remain there for a year or two more at least and probably longer, based on reports I've seen from other Gen 2 LEAF owners in moderate climate places that aren't 40C at 2am for a month continuous. :-)

The vehicles themselves are brilliant. Loaded with great features. But those batteries.....I'm surprised no one has sued Nissan NZ for selling a 2012 car ("NZ new in 2014!! - misleading) for $40k-$70k that deteriorated so quickly. If it wasn't an EV they'd be doing a recall.

The Gen 2 LEAF is far superior and mainly because the battery was so much improved. Re-sale value will be better as well.

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#1635704 19-Sep-2016 09:40

jonathan18:

Willuknight:

We're in Christchurch, but i've been looking on trademe for anywhere because I don't mind flying up to drive something down.

Don't forget it's a bit more of a hassle to drive a Leaf long distances!

I've bought our last 3-4 cars in Akld, and have been happy to fly up and drive them back to PN; if I do the same when we get a Leaf I decided I'll be happy to pay a transport company to bring it down, given it'll take quite a while to make my way here in a car with a range of 120sh kms that then needs charging for quite some time. For some the extended road trip may be part of the pleasure, but I don't think it's my cuppa...

Hopefully by the end of January it will be possible to drive from Auckland to Wellington at least. The South Island is looking good, too.

The Gen 2 LEAF can do up to 170-180km if the driver knows how to drive efficiently and the terrain isn't contantly uphill for 100km. Granted a new LEAF owner probably won't know how to get that extra 20% out of their new LEAF. But 120km range in a Gen 2 would be a lead-footed driver with air-con on constantly driving into a strong headwind up a hill. :-)

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#1635718 19-Sep-2016 10:03

Linuxluver:

Hopefully by the end of January it will be possible to drive from Auckland to Wellington at least. The South Island is looking good, too.

The Gen 2 LEAF can do up to 170-180km if the driver knows how to drive efficiently and the terrain isn't contantly uphill for 100km. Granted a new LEAF owner probably won't know how to get that extra 20% out of their new LEAF. But 120km range in a Gen 2 would be a lead-footed driver with air-con on constantly driving into a strong headwind up a hill. :-)

My general point is, however, that many actual and potential Leaf owners (including myself) won't have the same focus that you clearly have on maximising your efficiency, and your willingness for long-distance trips to take longer (in some cases considerably longer, eg if it pushes a day trip to an overnight one) due to the need to stop to charge.

I totally get your focus, and commend you for the dedication, but personally I'm happy to purchase a Leaf knowing we'll get more than enough mileage on a single charge for our daily use around town, but that we can't expect to take this on trips far away from where we live. (Of course, I know that it's possible - it's just the additional effort just isn't practical or desirable for many, eg travelling with kids, or needing to get places in a hurry etc)

One of the things that appeals to me about the Leaf is just its ordinariness - in the context of city driving, it's just a normal car that can be driven like any other car, without having to focus too much on efficiency etc. Given my wife's leaden foot, and that she's usually got two brats in the back distracting her, the efficient but ordinary approach of the Leaf is perfect.

Certainly, I've decided that we'll only look at gen two models, given the battery issues with gen one; also an s spec model, given its replaceable head unit. There don't seem too many features missing from this lowest spec'd range that are critical, but I'd ensure it came with a reversing camera, given this is an option.

Some of the more affordable gen two cars for sale on TM have a few kms on them already - given your comments on the so-far better life expectancy of the gen two battery, is this (relatively) higher mileage something to worry about?

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#1635720 19-Sep-2016 10:09

jonathan18:

Linuxluver:

Hopefully by the end of January it will be possible to drive from Auckland to Wellington at least. The South Island is looking good, too.

The Gen 2 LEAF can do up to 170-180km if the driver knows how to drive efficiently and the terrain isn't contantly uphill for 100km. Granted a new LEAF owner probably won't know how to get that extra 20% out of their new LEAF. But 120km range in a Gen 2 would be a lead-footed driver with air-con on constantly driving into a strong headwind up a hill. :-)

My general point is, however, that many actual and potential Leaf owners (including myself) won't have the same focus that you clearly have on maximising your efficiency, and your willingness for long-distance trips to take longer (in some cases considerably longer, eg if it pushes a day trip to an overnight one) due to the need to stop to charge.

I totally get your focus, and commend you for the dedication, but personally I'm happy to purchase a Leaf knowing we'll get more than enough mileage on a single charge for our daily use around town, but that we can't expect to take this on trips far away from where we live. (Of course, I know that it's possible - it's just the additional effort just isn't practical or desirable for many, eg travelling with kids, or needing to get places in a hurry etc)

One of the things that appeals to me about the Leaf is just its ordinariness - in the context of city driving, it's just a normal car that can be driven like any other car, without having to focus too much on efficiency etc. Given my wife's leaden foot, and that she's usually got two brats in the back distracting her, the efficient but ordinary approach of the Leaf is perfect.

Certainly, I've decided that we'll only look at gen two models, given the battery issues with gen one; also an s spec model, given its replaceable head unit. There don't seem too many features missing from this lowest spec'd range that are critical, but I'd ensure it came with a reversing camera, given this is an option.

Some of the more affordable gen two cars for sale on TM have a few kms on them already - given your comments on the so-far better life expectancy of the gen two battery, is this (relatively) higher mileage something to worry about?

I'm right there with you, TBH. Thank for your comments.

My own thoughts were more about inter-city. In town there is no real need to compromise or make any adjustment from wasteful ICE habits. Frankly, the LEAF has helped me understand how much PETROL I wasted for decades by driving carelessly. That was real money just tossed away. Thousands. I'm not talking about kerb-crawling. More about accelerating slowly, having good tyres and tyre pressure, and not speeding.....which can easily waste 20% of your fuel right there.

Also...I'm in my late 50s. I *finally* learned that faster doesn't mean you get there any sooner. There is always a truck or set of lights or road works that very often make one's 'gains' by driving faster and for longer completely evaporate.

My take-way from 40 years of driving is that if I'm in a hurry I'll get there in only 60 minutes, but if I relax and enjoy the ride it will take an hour.

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jonathan18

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#1635733 19-Sep-2016 10:37

Linuxluver:

I'm right there with you, TBH. Thank for your comments.

My own thoughts were more about inter-city. In town there is no real need to compromise or make any adjustment from wasteful ICE habits. Frankly, the LEAF has helped me understand how much PETROL I wasted for decades by driving carelessly. That was real money just tossed away. Thousands. I'm not talking about kerb-crawling. More about accelerating slowly, having good tyres and tyre pressure, and not speeding.....which can easily waste 20% of your fuel right there.

Also...I'm in my late 50s. I *finally* learned that faster doesn't mean you get there any sooner. There is always a truck or set of lights or road works that very often make one's 'gains' by driving faster and for longer completely evaporate.

My take-way from 40 years of driving is that if I'm in a hurry I'll get there in only 60 minutes, but if I relax and enjoy the ride it will take an hour.

I totally get where you're coming from. But just to clarify my comment regarding getting somewhere fast: I wasn't talking about the speed at which one travels, but rather the forced delays necessary for charging, which add significant time to a journey.

I can probably travel from Akld to Wellington on a single tank (on open road trips my car can show a range of 900-1,000 km), and that's more than do-able in a day. In a Leaf? Well, it's certainly going to take multiple charging stops and a couple of days! Even a single stop to charge say from PN to Wellington probably adds 30-50% to the travelling time.

Would be keen on your thoughts re my earlier question re mileage when purchasing a Leaf; given I'll be looking for best bang for buck, this is an important consideration! Thanks...

Willuknight

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#1635741 19-Sep-2016 10:53

Thanks for all the comments.

With my financial model - I can buy a Gen 1 leaf, use it for 4 years and at the end of that, I'm still ahead of where I'd be if i purchased a $2000 petrol car in terms of cost and on road costs so even if i pushed the leaf off a cliff at the end of that, I'd be $3k ahead.

I've been advised that I can put a gen 2 battery into a gen 1 leaf, so given the price difference is about 7k (The bottom price for a gen1 is about $1400) I can drive it for 4 years and then spend $6k on putting a new battery in - and it's $6k now, so it might even get cheaper over the next 4 years. Most of the models I'm looking at have 11 bars and have done about 30,000.

Looking at all those pieces, it seems to fit together well? (hoping someone can see a flaw in my plan).

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#1635763 19-Sep-2016 11:27

Very interesting comments. I am looking at moving over. Have solar panels on my home. Any advice is welcome

It has been suggested that I can use the car as a Storage system as well. Looking at a late model. Any suggestions or comments welcome.

Based in Hamilton

Linuxluver

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#1635782 19-Sep-2016 11:57

jonathan18:

Linuxluver:

I'm right there with you, TBH. Thank for your comments.

My own thoughts were more about inter-city. In town there is no real need to compromise or make any adjustment from wasteful ICE habits. Frankly, the LEAF has helped me understand how much PETROL I wasted for decades by driving carelessly. That was real money just tossed away. Thousands. I'm not talking about kerb-crawling. More about accelerating slowly, having good tyres and tyre pressure, and not speeding.....which can easily waste 20% of your fuel right there.

Also...I'm in my late 50s. I *finally* learned that faster doesn't mean you get there any sooner. There is always a truck or set of lights or road works that very often make one's 'gains' by driving faster and for longer completely evaporate.

My take-way from 40 years of driving is that if I'm in a hurry I'll get there in only 60 minutes, but if I relax and enjoy the ride it will take an hour.

I totally get where you're coming from. But just to clarify my comment regarding getting somewhere fast: I wasn't talking about the speed at which one travels, but rather the forced delays necessary for charging, which add significant time to a journey.

I can probably travel from Akld to Wellington on a single tank (on open road trips my car can show a range of 900-1,000 km), and that's more than do-able in a day. In a Leaf? Well, it's certainly going to take multiple charging stops and a couple of days! Even a single stop to charge say from PN to Wellington probably adds 30-50% to the travelling time.

Would be keen on your thoughts re my earlier question re mileage when purchasing a Leaf; given I'll be looking for best bang for buck, this is an important consideration! Thanks...

Some of the more affordable gen two cars for sale on TM have a few kms on them already - given your comments on the so-far better life expectancy of the gen two battery, is this (relatively) higher mileage something to worry about?

Interestingly, I have a 30kw LEAF arriving in 2 weeks.

With that car, Wellington in a day should be easily do-able when the chargers are in place (by end of year or end of January at the latest).

Auckland to Cambridge - 141km

Cambridge to Taupo - 129km

Taupo to Waiouru - 112km, but allowing for long climbs and strong wind.

Waiouru to Palmerston North - 130km, trending downhill off the central plateau, but allowing for hills on SH54. A fast charger at Bulls would be much better than Palmy. Next year.

Palmerston North to Wellington - 141km, mainly flat but some wind.

That's 4 charging stops of about 30 mins each. So add about two hours to a non-stop drive....and I reckon that's about the same amount of time most people would stop, in total, on a day-long 640km drive. The chargers just make it easy to know where and when to make those stop.

Leave Auckland at 6am. Be in Wellington for 6pm...or maybe 7pm. But still not outrageous.

Granted a 24kw Gen 2 would need to make one (maybe two) more stops (Tirau and maybe Mangaweka).....so add another hour....plus a bit....so arrive Wellington around 8pm-9pm after leaving Auckland at 6am.

Last week I drove to Rawene and back in a day. That's 540km return. Add another 90 mins to get to a distance equivalent to driving to Wellington (incl 30 mins charging). Absolutely do-able between early breakfast and later supper. This drive and my loop around Tauranga and Rotorua and back are both very close to a one-way drive to Wellington.

I'm prepared to make these compromises to be zero emissions. Climate change is a slow-motion emergency right now that most of the frogs in the pot haven't yet recognised.

16 consecutive months of record high global average temperatures....and counting.

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richms

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#1635787 19-Sep-2016 12:06

People stop that long when driving? I usually get out for a pee and a fill up once at Taupo and that is it.

While doing that trip will be possible in an ev I would not want it to be a regular thing with all the needless stops.

Richard rich.ms

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#1635799 19-Sep-2016 12:17

richms: People stop that long when driving? I usually get out for a pee and a fill up once at Taupo and that is it.

While doing that trip will be possible in an ev I would not want it to be a regular thing with all the needless stops.

Not doing "unnecessary" stops is how people end up in the ditch that one time in a hundred when your attention wandered at the wrong moment.

It's actually not safe to drive for hours without stopping. The stats make that clear. The people who insist on doing it prove it over and over in the stats. ;-)

What might be easy at 30yo can be fatal at 50yo.....but people being people we fail to make the adjustment.

We should stop for 15-20 mins every 60-90 mins. At minimum every 2 hours. Charging up an LEAF EV fits perfectly with that safe driving practice. In a Tesla you can stop every 3 hours.....if not in a ditch. :-)

hhttp://www.independenttraveler.com/travel-tips/car-travel/top-20-safe-driving-tipsttp://www.independenttraveler.com/travel-tips/car-travel/top-20-safe-driving-tips

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