Reliable station wagon - model suggestions?

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#1485428 4-Feb-2016 20:00

Technofreak:

No one has mentioned a Commodore or Falcon wagon. Plenty of space, reliable, easy to maintain. Rear wheel drive, no CV joint issues etc. Parts are plentiful and cheap.

Mine's done 330,000 km and is still very reliable, I'd certainly be looking at these as an option.

I'd expect 10.5 km/l on the open road and 7.5 km/l around town. My 2003 VY Commodore 3.8l sedan does those numbers easily, I often see 12 km/l on the open road and rarely see less than 8.5 km/l around town. YMMV

The newer 3.6l engines are even better.

Without starting a Holden vs Ford battle, you couldn't pay me to own either. Particularly in that price bracket.

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#1485439 4-Feb-2016 20:35

scuwp:

Without starting a Holden vs Ford battle, you couldn't pay me to own either. Particularly in that price bracket.

That's about as silly as some of the other comments about owning several other makes. You make a sweeping statement without producing any evidence.

I've owned 4 Holdens since 1979, these have been the only cars I've owned in that time, two brand new and two second hand. The last one clocked up over 275,000 km, the current one over 330,000 km. Everyone has been very reliable and cheap to run. Based on my experience I have no hesitation in recommending them.

I have experience through my employment over those years of other brands that have given less than stellar service. Recognising every brand has it's lemons I haven't come on here rubbishing these brands.

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#1485441 4-Feb-2016 20:43

Technofreak:

That's about as silly as some of the other comments about owning several other makes. You make a sweeping statement without producing any evidence.

Ok, I'll bite. The last time I looked an 06 Holden wagon didn't even have a rear centre headrest, let alone the heated, electric front seats, tv and sat nav my 01 530i BMW has.

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#1485451 4-Feb-2016 21:22

martyyn:

Ok, I'll bite. The last time I looked an 06 Holden wagon didn't even have a rear centre headrest, let alone the heated, electric front seats, tv and sat nav my 01 530i BMW has.

Quite right too, especially the heated front seats, TV and Sat Nav, things the average kiwi absolutely cannot do without.

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Handle9

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#1485466 4-Feb-2016 22:22

Technofreak:

martyyn:

Ok, I'll bite. The last time I looked an 06 Holden wagon didn't even have a rear centre headrest, let alone the heated, electric front seats, tv and sat nav my 01 530i BMW has.

Quite right too, especially the heated front seats, TV and Sat Nav, things the average kiwi absolutely cannot do without.

True but I'm sure they'd like things such as the cir-clips tightened at the factory on the power steering hoses so they don't randomly fall off, the fuel cap cover not to randomly fall off or random rattles on a 6 month old car. Something that vaguely approached the panels lining up and any form of feature that was standard on a Japanese car, you know like maybe climate control would have been nice though. I really miss my work VZ Commodore wagon. It was good for carrying around colossal quantities of stuff though.

Appalling fuel economy is my only really criticism of the 4 litre Ford engine coupled with a prehistoric 4 stage automatic however it was REALLY appalling (admittedly on a RWD Territory). As alway YMMV but they are both pretty crude compared to Asian or European cars.

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#1485469 4-Feb-2016 22:25

Volvo.

kiwirock

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#1485510 5-Feb-2016 03:49

joker97:

kiwirock:

Cheap parts? Wait until you get your first serious Subaru bill when the AWD starts to hop the axles :o)

Yikes, how old [which series/gen] was that subaru?

It's a an older 2004 which has a dual-mass flywheel (can't be machined). The engine and body are fine, but the clutch is almost due - chirpy throw-out bearing now and then at 150,000K's but no point pulling without replacing the clutch and flywheel.

I get a little wheel chirp from the rear on tight-turns on concrete parking garage floors. This can be normal for an AWD but Subaru's eventually turn in to a shudder when the VCU fails. So I'm a bit sensitive to chirping and any shudder or hoping of the wheels would definitely be a Subaru to go no where near.

It's not so much a generational thing, but mileage and the manual gearbox version. They have a viscous centre diff. If you're lucky they fail and you end up with 2WD. If you're not, they fail and lock the centre diff stressing out the gearbox and front/rear differentials and rest of the drive-line to the wheels. Eventually something gives... if it's a tooth that disintegrates in to white poweder in the gearbox, owch. The VCU costs enough to replace little own rebuild the trans at the same time.

The newer automatic Outback's use a computerised electrically controlled centre diff. The fuse puts power to the other side of the clutch plates and renders the car 2WD. You can't do this in the manual though. It's purely mechanical/fluid dynamics and it either works or breaks. The later being more mileage based and the age of the fluid in the VCU (you have to replace the whole VCU, it isn't serviceable).

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#1485518 5-Feb-2016 07:16

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there.

http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93599&p=962454&hilit=avensis#p962454

http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89496&p=915212&hilit=avensis#p915212

scuwp

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#1485552 5-Feb-2016 08:10

Technofreak:

scuwp:

Without starting a Holden vs Ford battle, you couldn't pay me to own either. Particularly in that price bracket.

That's about as silly as some of the other comments about owning several other makes. You make a sweeping statement without producing any evidence.

I've owned 4 Holdens since 1979, these have been the only cars I've owned in that time, two brand new and two second hand. The last one clocked up over 275,000 km, the current one over 330,000 km. Everyone has been very reliable and cheap to run. Based on my experience I have no hesitation in recommending them.

I have experience through my employment over those years of other brands that have given less than stellar service. Recognising every brand has it's lemons I haven't come on here rubbishing these brands.

Hang on a minute. The OP posted on here asking for peoples subjective "opinions". I was expressing mine based on my own experience as an owner, close friends/associates that own or use to own these vehicles, and a handful of mechanics I know in the trade. Including a former workshop manager for a large Holden dealership. You clearly have another opinion which you are welcome to, that does not make mine or anyone elses opinion that you disagree with "silly".

In my experience and that of the group of people listed above, Aussie assembled vehicles just cannot compete with the refinement and quality of their euro or Asian assembled counterparts. I currently own a Ford (the second one) and have driven Holdens for years for work. While both have been great vehicles to drive, there is a point in my opinion where the lack of refinement and attention to detail in the finishing/design/assembly let them down. I am sure I will get a zillion km out of my current Ford if I wanted, but ongoing issues with rust (due to poor design and assembly), window mechanisms braking (poor design), ball joint replacements (poor design) and so on, all well documented and recognized by Ford, will mean it won't be with me that long.

Sorry OP...back to the thread. I still suggest a peek at Skoda ;-)

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#1485555 5-Feb-2016 08:13

lxsw20:

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there.

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

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#1485568 5-Feb-2016 08:34

joker97:
lxsw20:

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there.

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

Not in this case. The D4 engine has some pretty well documented issues. It doesn't affect that many models but the Avensis is one of them. If it's been well looked after they are meant to be ok but they aren't a corolla or Camry engine.

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#1485569 5-Feb-2016 08:34

joker97:
lxsw20:

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there.

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

lxsw20

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#1485574 5-Feb-2016 08:41

joker97:

lxsw20:

The Avensis is not considered the most reliable of Toyotas out there.

I would put more trust in the fact it's a toyota than one thread on one forum in the entire internet.

They are built with very high tolerance hence they last better. [As opposed to Hondas, Subarus, very narrow tolerance. Deviate and die.]

Of course, take a manual Corolla and drive it at the red line smashing the gears in and double clutching and trying to drift it, and never service it, would be less reliable than a Lada. Maybe ...

What are you basing your facts off here? The Avensis is not even made in the same country as the Corolla we get in NZ(or wasn't at the time).

It's not exactly a forum of people taking having a guess or just assuming it's good because Toyota (Cavalier anyone?). At least 2 of the guys that commented have worked for Toyota and one of the others is an auto sparky.

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#1485620 5-Feb-2016 09:02

martyyn:

networkn:

Do NOT buy a Euro car with that budget. Not under ANY circumstances, unless those are free repairs for the next 3 years.

Oh, do me a favour ! This as as ridiculous a statement as anything I have read from that muppet who writes the D&L guide. I think I'm on my 13th BMW now over 20 years and I own three currently.

So every 1.5-2 years you've needed to buy another ? And spares at home for when one breaks down ? ;)

PS: I'm kidding, I've never owned and never will own a BMW, but know a few people who have had them and loved them to bits. As with any car, think it comes down to how you treat the vehicle more than anything.

As for those mentioning Subarus, I had a 96 GT wagon many years ago, loved that thing, but it wasn't cheap when something went wrong - thankfully was just an exhaust issue but that was still $1k to fix. Things have changed on them since that generation and they probably are cheaper to maintain/repair now - theres enough of them on the roads.

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#1485639 5-Feb-2016 09:15

We have a 2003 Mazda Atenza (Mazda 6) and would definitely consider buying a newer version when we upgrade. Comfortable car, nice to drive, especially on road trips. Lots of space. 2.3L engine, so its economical yet powerful enough when required.

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