Petrol prices getting close to last year's record. What about your city or town?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Petrol prices getting close to last year's record. What about your city or town?

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#2886180 14-Mar-2022 19:31

Senecio:

I don't really understand the half price public transport being put forward to ease the impact of the fuel price increases. I mean I get it, they want to be seen to be incentivising public transport over personal vehicle use. But if you're not already commuting by public transport today, this isn't really going to change anyone's mind. My commute by car is 34mins on a good day and 65mins on a bad day (average about 45mins). For me to get to work by public transport would take 2hr and 27mins, each way. I just checked the AT website and that is the fastest route which includes a bus, 2 trains and 37mins of walking to/from stops.

I'm thinking of switching to bus due to this announcement, so clearly the strategy is working for some. Fortunately for me I can get a direct bus to work involving about 15mins of walking each way. It won't work for everyone but the system has improved so hopefully it prompts people to revisit the option and see how it works for them.

Senecio

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#2886183 14-Mar-2022 20:08

KiwiSurfer:

Senecio:

I don't really understand the half price public transport being put forward to ease the impact of the fuel price increases. I mean I get it, they want to be seen to be incentivising public transport over personal vehicle use. But if you're not already commuting by public transport today, this isn't really going to change anyone's mind. My commute by car is 34mins on a good day and 65mins on a bad day (average about 45mins). For me to get to work by public transport would take 2hr and 27mins, each way. I just checked the AT website and that is the fastest route which includes a bus, 2 trains and 37mins of walking to/from stops.

I'm thinking of switching to bus due to this announcement, so clearly the strategy is working for some. Fortunately for me I can get a direct bus to work involving about 15mins of walking each way. It won't work for everyone but the system has improved so hopefully it prompts people to revisit the option and see how it works for them.

if this announcement has caused you to consider switching to bus then I would argue you probably should have already switched before this announcement.

Most people I know who can use public transport are already using it. I used it for years when I lived in Dublin, that’s because it suited my commute. If my commute was a simple suburbs to the city centre then I would use it now. unfortunately it’s not

KiwiSurfer

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#2886184 14-Mar-2022 20:10

Senecio:

if this announcement has caused you to consider switching to bus then I would argue you probably should have already switched before this announcement.

The cost of bus at the moment is more than travelling by car -- the Auckland zonal system makes it more expensive the shorter the distance. But if it is half-price then that changes the economics for me.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2886190 14-Mar-2022 20:21

With the drop in excise tax, it's nice, but depending on your use case, it could make stuff all difference.

Sure, if your taking on 45 - 60 litres at a time, you see it. If you're only putting in say $50 at a time, you'll gain an extra litre and a bit.

But with the public transport, I could potentially save nearly $20 a week (based on a peak on-way fare of $3.80). Bring on the PT price drop!

GV27

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#2886213 14-Mar-2022 21:10

The PT price drop is a sop to those who can afford to live near public transit options (i.e. centrally) underwritten by those with less access to PT who can't make the same use of it.

Therefore it's racist or something, IDK. It pisses me off that places like the Shore are getting even cheaper use of their express busway while there's literally nothing like it in the North West of Auckland for us to benefit to the same extent by.

gzt

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#2886224 14-Mar-2022 22:06

GV27: The PT price drop is a sop to those who can afford to live near public transit options (i.e. centrally) underwritten by those with less access to PT who can't make the same use of it.

There are many rail stations and reasonable bus transport routes serving people who do not live centrally but I take your point.

It pisses me off that places like the Shore are getting even cheaper use of their express busway while there's literally nothing like it in the North West of Auckland for us to benefit to the same extent by.

Yes that will be annoying. Are there any express services from Westgate to the city? Lack of regular express services used to annoy me no end on bus routes. I see they've invested quite a bit into terminals at Westgate lately.

Senecio

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#2886234 14-Mar-2022 22:38

There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

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scuwp

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#2886296 15-Mar-2022 06:14

Senecio: There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

All the media reporting has been about price at the pump. I haven't seen anything yet about changes to RUC rates. Might be too complicated to make a short term change?

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Ge0rge

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#2886297 15-Mar-2022 06:28

scuwp:
Senecio: There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

All the media reporting has been about price at the pump. I haven't seen anything yet about changes to RUC rates. Might be too complicated to make a short term change?

I can't see there being any restrictions on the amount of RUC purchasable - the last time there was an increase in RUC it was publicised well in advance and I know several people who brought more than they normally would just before the increase.

TVNZ had a piece saying the RUC component would be released in the next few days.

Senecio

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#2886301 15-Mar-2022 06:47

scuwp:
Senecio: There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

All the media reporting has been about price at the pump. I haven't seen anything yet about changes to RUC rates. Might be too complicated to make a short term change?

Definitely in scope, details to follow.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-cuts-25c-litre-fuel-excise-cost-living-relief-package

"Petrol excise duty and road user charges both cut by 25 cents a litre for three months"

"Due to the nature of RUC, officials are working through a number of options to make sure support flows in a timely way, and the Transport Minister will be setting out the details for how we will support RUC payers in the coming days."

It will be interesting to see how they determine an equivalent to 25c/L for RUC. I guess they'll just have to come up with a flat L/km conversion for each of the vehicle types and weight bands. I expect in reality I won't see 25c/L as they'll use something like 9L/100km which is more typical of a Hilux/Ranger rather than the 5.5L/100km that my car achieves. It will be what it will be.

wellygary

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#2886302 15-Mar-2022 06:48

This was a statement from the minister of transport late last night... RUC details due in the next couple of days , but no details on how they will limit purchase amounts... also shows how rapidly this plan was put together

GV27

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#2886304 15-Mar-2022 06:55

gzt:
Yes that will be annoying. Are there any express services from Westgate to the city? Lack of regular express services used to annoy me no end on bus routes. I see they've invested quite a bit into terminals at Westgate lately.

That's news to me. The lack of promised public transit infrastructure is part of a long-running legal battle.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127788337/westgate-developer-ups-claim-against-auckland-council-to-90-million

There's an interim busway (hint: painted bus shoulders and some off-ramp bus stops, lol) planned that we're getting in lieu of the light rail promised along SH16, but I believe that has been delayed by Covid and budget constraints. Otherwise the buses are stuck in the same kind of traffic that justified the North Shore busway, which has been running for over a decade now.

Generally, it is quicker for bus users to go from Westgate to Constellation and then along the NEX busway than from Westgate to the CBD. The joys of Auckland. Hence everyone drives in West Auckland, and usually poorly. I include myself in that :)

empacher48

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#2886318 15-Mar-2022 08:21

Senecio: There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

For light vehicles (under 3,500kg) there is no restriction on doing that. I'll just be buying the same dollar amount of distance I normally do each month, but know that I'll get more to use later on.

For heavy vehicles (over 3,500kg) the last time RUC changed the licences expired 1 month after the change in RUC and you had to purchase on "overlap" licence, at the new rates, then hand back your old licence and get a refund on the cheaper one.

So if you own a campervan or motorhome that weighs more than 3,500kg you won't be able to buy a large amount of RUC to use later, as you'll end up having to buy overlap as above.

wellygary

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#2886329 15-Mar-2022 09:11

empacher48:

Senecio: There’s little details available at the moment but I wonder how this will be applied to RUC? I have a small diesel SUV (Skoda Yeti) and it’s likely I won’t need to purchase any RUC in the next 3 months. But what’s stopping me from loading up 20k, 30k, 40k or more kilometres of RUC just before the cut expires in 3 months. Surely there must some sort of limit in play?

For light vehicles (under 3,500kg) there is no restriction on doing that. I'll just be buying the same dollar amount of distance I normally do each month, but know that I'll get more to use later on.

For heavy vehicles (over 3,500kg) the last time RUC changed the licences expired 1 month after the change in RUC and you had to purchase on "overlap" licence, at the new rates, then hand back your old licence and get a refund on the cheaper one.

So if you own a campervan or motorhome that weighs more than 3,500kg you won't be able to buy a large amount of RUC to use later, as you'll end up having to buy overlap as above.

The 1 month RUC Expiry is not after a "change" it is explicitly written in the act as an "increase"

"Licence for heavy RUC vehicle invalid 1 month after road user charges rate increased"

Also there is the 42 day notification period that is in the act also

"Regulations made under subsection (1)—

(a) come into force 42 days after the date of their notification in the Gazette, "

Looks like some emergency legislation will be needed to be stuffed through Parliament,

mkissin

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#2886364 15-Mar-2022 09:55

One thing I found interesting was the projected costs of this scheme.

A halving of PT fares costing $25 to $40 million, and a 25c drop of fuel tax costing $350 million. That says to me we could easily add back a bit of tax on fuel and make PT totally free for a very reasonable amount. That's undoubtedly helped by the PT usage currently being low, of course.

I say this as a car driver and owner of a petrol vehicle.

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