EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2754491 3-Aug-2021 14:32

RobDickinson:

Top 10 selling EVs of the year:

Tesla Model 3 903
MG ZS EV 427
Hyundai Kona EV 385
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 347
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV 171
Hyundai Ioniq EV 118
Kia Niro EV 98
Mini Countryman PHEV 97
Audi E-Tron 93
Porsche Taycan 80

Crazy how the taycan is 10th, shows we lack some middle ground options, and the Eclipse has a solid start.

I wonder how many of the Model 3s were under $80k?

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PolicyGuy

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#2754493 3-Aug-2021 14:33

frankv:

I don't see that as a given. A standard tactic is for X (NZ) Ltd to buy widgets off X (Luxembourg) Ltd at very near the NZ retail (excl GST) price. X (Luxembourg) Ltd in turn buys them off X (China) Ltd or X (USA) or wherever at a very low price. The goods themselves of course never go anywhere near Luxembourg. And all three "independent" entities are 100% owned by X Corporation Ltd.

So X (NZ) Ltd and X (China) Ltd make almost no profit, so pay almost no tax on their profits. X (Luxembourg) Ltd makes vast profits, which are essentially untaxed. GST on the import is about the same as what is collected from the customer.

The above is essentially how Apple scams people worldwide, except they use Ireland instead of Luxembourg.

Variants on the above include paying "marketing" or "license" fees to X (Luxembourg) Ltd.

Another favourite trick is that the local subsidiary X (NZ) Ltd has only a relatively small share capital and most of its actual capital requirements are financed through a loan from X (Lesser Antilles) Corp, at a rate somewhat above market rates. This both generates a tax deductible expense in NZ and shifts profit to a low-tax regime overseas.

Ya gotta love multinational company accounting policies :(

IMO, the whole Company Tax regime needs to be replaced with a turnover-based Company Tax and a Financial Transactions Tax.
Unfortunately the FTT is backed by the Social Credit Party and so is beyond the political pale in NZ

RobDickinson

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#2754495 3-Aug-2021 14:36

Dingbatt:

RobDickinson:

Top 10 selling EVs of the year:

Tesla Model 3 903
MG ZS EV 427
Hyundai Kona EV 385
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 347
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV 171
Hyundai Ioniq EV 118
Kia Niro EV 98
Mini Countryman PHEV 97
Audi E-Tron 93
Porsche Taycan 80

Crazy how the taycan is 10th, shows we lack some middle ground options, and the Eclipse has a solid start.

I wonder how many of the Model 3s were under $80k?

Thats for the year, only 197 or so were sold under the clean car rebate but most of those would have been SR+ held over from June.

Usually its about 2/3rds of the total as the cheapest model but that will change bigly now.

Dingbatt

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#2754513 3-Aug-2021 14:50

And the Kona Elite is more than $80k isn’t it?

So there is effectively 660 (a third of the M3s, half the Konas, and all of the e-Trons and Taycans) of the sales that would not have (did not) qualify for the rebate. Hopeless.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

wellygary

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#2754514 3-Aug-2021 14:52

RobDickinson:

yet you're happy to point the finger at tesla without evidence.

in 2020 Tesla NZ paid Telsa Netherlands BV $30 million for "purchases" - which was around 50% of their total costs of sales

Last time I looked Tesla didn't make cars in Holland

financial note 15 b)

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/service/services/documents/6A57901CEAFC8F7C51728F0C12EF4703

I'm not saying Tesla are any worse than all the rest, they all do it...

RobDickinson

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#2754522 3-Aug-2021 15:06

Dingbatt:

And the Kona Elite is more than $80k isn’t it?

So there is effectively 660 (a third of the M3s, half the Konas, and all of the e-Trons and Taycans) of the sales that would not have (did not) qualify for the rebate. Hopeless.

Why hopeless? You are comparing numbers from mostly before the rebate ( ie 6 of 7 months) and befoer the market has adjusted, we've new cheaper kona and other cars like the zoe, e208 coming into the market.

The subsidy is about growing sales of cheaper evs, I would say a significant portion of the July sales got a rebate

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davidcole

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#2754523 3-Aug-2021 15:08

RobDickinson:

Top 10 selling EVs of the year:

Tesla Model 3 903
MG ZS EV 427
Hyundai Kona EV 385
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 347
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV 171
Hyundai Ioniq EV 118
Kia Niro EV 98
Mini Countryman PHEV 97
Audi E-Tron 93
Porsche Taycan 80

Crazy how the taycan is 10th, shows we lack some middle ground options, and the Eclipse has a solid start.

None of the Merc ones....or are they not sold here? Probably similar pricing to the etron.

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RobDickinson

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#2754525 3-Aug-2021 15:11

davidcole:

None of the Merc ones....or are they not sold here? Probably similar pricing to the etron.

EQC had sold 46 up to June so is probably on 60ish or so. EQA will be 40-60 or something. Neither will get the rebate.

Dingbatt

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#2754548 3-Aug-2021 15:59

RobDickinson:

Why hopeless?

Because $80k is an arbitrary limit. Why not $100k, or $120k? Any EV is reducing the number of ICEs on the road so it is purely a political decision.

Edit: Note, $120k would have encompassed all models of every vehicle at the top of your list. At $80k you aren’t even getting back all the gst you have paid.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

RobDickinson

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#2754554 3-Aug-2021 16:07

Politically its so they could skip some of the taxing the poor funding the rich stuff, if you are spending over 80k on a car you dont really need gov help as there should be a cheaper option to do what you need.

I see their point but perhaps it could have rolled off to lower % ( say 50% for 80-100, and 25% 100-120k).

these artificial hard limits with subsidies always cause some weird issues.

Dingbatt

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#2754555 3-Aug-2021 16:09

It’s not a tax, it’s a fee (/s).

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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RobDickinson

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#2754556 3-Aug-2021 16:10

well theres no tax or fee either way right now and you're getting these kinds of comments already..

wellygary

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#2754558 3-Aug-2021 16:15

RobDickinson:

Politically its so they could skip some of the taxing the poor funding the rich stuff, if you are spending over 80k on a car you dont really need gov help as there should be a cheaper option to do what you need.

I see their point but perhaps it could have rolled off to lower % ( say 50% for 80-100, and 25% 100-120k).

these artificial hard limits with subsidies always cause some weird issues.

You might hope there was some economic analysis on the elasticity of demand at certain price points, but I suspect it came down to a price that was high enough to capture enough models to actually have an impact, but low enough to fend off claims of subsidy for the rich"

Its clear that used prices have pretty much moved to gobble up the incentive, thus blunting their impact on that market, but in all honesty it was always the new car market that would be doing the heavy lifting to really kick on EV sales...

RobDickinson

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#2754562 3-Aug-2021 16:19

We're a month into a 10-15 year policy. I'm not surprised there is a short term kick in the used prices. But its a long term policy (at least as planned).

RobDickinson

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#2754944 4-Aug-2021 10:45

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/government-approves-5-7-million-in-clean-car-rebates

So 1422 applicants in July for the rebate out of 1944 cars. Not a bad percentage after all...

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