RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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#3183275 17-Jan-2024 22:41

ezbee:

Auckland Business Chamber CEO Simon Bridges in hospital with broken wrist after e-scooter accident
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506958/auckland-business-chamber-ceo-simon-bridges-in-hospital-with-broken-wrist-after-e-scooter-accident

While we are at it with user pays maybe e-scooters should be paying RUC for ACC medical and hospital costs?

Assuming you are jesting or slightly jesting, there was some article a wee while back, cannot recall what accident type it was, but it showed a minor activity that is cheap to do/buy, can cause major costs to the taxpayer, per incident. At least RUC and cars is a more discrete set of variables.

Obraik

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#3183284 17-Jan-2024 23:18

tdgeek:

The only solution is RUC for all vehicles. If they run on electrons, oil or whatever, that is the only option. And it needs to be simple. IMO rego is simple, WOF is simple. It cannot be that hard as long as you cater for the IT literate crowd, AND the many that are not. Ive lost count how many new complicated things are now commonplace, RUC is just another that can be made part of regular life

If the average Ranger driver can handle RUC, anyone else can 😉 (kidding, mostly...)

But yes, that is what I was implying in my reply...you quoted. The RUC equivalent in fuel should have been removed so everyone pays for RUC in the same way. It wasn't a urgent issue that RUC be added to EVs ASAP before that other process was completed.

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BlakJak

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#3183288 17-Jan-2024 23:26

I imagine the holes in the budget means that this was seen as a quick win that was on the cards anyway.

No signature to see here, move along...

Obraik

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#3183290 17-Jan-2024 23:48

From what I understand, based on changes made a number of years ago, they can't use funds from motorist revenue for things other than transport related things. I'm sure they could use it for their promised 4 lane motorway from Tauranga to Whangarei though.

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Technofreak

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#3183291 17-Jan-2024 23:55

gzt:
technofreak: I reckon the ballpark L/100 km on average is about 10L/100 km considering most driving for the average person is stop start around town.

Way too high. Most cars in NZ similar in size to the current electric generation are around 7L/100km with quite a few lower these days.

Anyway, let's get some figures instead of competing our guesses ; )

Way too high? I don't think so.

Official figures might be around 7L/100km but there's no way you'll get that with stop start around town running.

To give an example one of my cars (V6, 4 door, 5 seat sedan) quotes a combined figure of 8.9. Most of my driving is open road expressway driving with cruise control set and I have achieved better than 6.5 in the right conditions but around town it's damn hard to stay below 12.5 to 13.

My driving profile gives me a better average consumption than normal. My real world average is about 8 to 8.5.

I'm not sure what size car you're thinking of? Nissan Leaf, MG ZS, Toyota Prius? I'd say the average car across all motive types (ICE, BEV or PHEV) is larger than those vehicles. To give a fair comparison we need to compare like with like. There's no point in comparing a Nissan Leaf with a RAV4 or a Ranger.

Fuel consumption is driven primarily by weight and shape. The most popular cars are SUV's which tend to be bigger and heavier than the likes of the Leaf and Prius etc and their shape isn't as streamlined.

I keep a record of my fuel consumption so I know what my real world figures are. I'm not quoting figures from the dash panel which tend to be optimistic. I'd be interested to know what real world figures (actual fuel bought against actual KM travelled and type of driving) people are getting.

I don't think it's coincidence that when a figure of around 10L/100km is used the road tax costs for BEV and ICE vehicles are very close. The government knows to an accurate enough degree how much fuel is sold and how many km are travelled each year

I think my 10L/100km average will work out to be a pretty good estimate.

Using my calculations from the other post, even if you were to reduce the consumption number down to 9L/100km there's about $65 per annum advantage to the ICE or BEV when compared to PHEV. The difference is nothing plus you still have the cost advantage of electricity over petrol.

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Technofreak

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#3183293 18-Jan-2024 00:02

Senecio:

This whole notion that Taxes need to be fair needs to stop. By definition Taxes are a redistribution of wealth, therefore they should not be fair. Those who have the means to pay more should pay more to provide services and infrastucture for everyone to use including those that don't have the means to contribute as much. That's just how taxes work.

There's really no need to create a user pays system to fund any particular public infrastructure. Far easier to just increase the taxes from income, expenditure and wealth creation (Capital Gains) to cover all public infrastucture and services required.

What's next, a library tax so that only those who read and borrow books pay for the public libraries? Why is roading so special that we need to create a user pays tax to fund it? Even if you don't own a car you still benefit from the roading system as goods and services are delivered to your door.

The price of those goods and services will include the cost of cartage and thus by default a road tax component. Even though you don't own a car you still pay when you receive a benefit from the roads. There is no need to have the road taxes collected as an income tax.

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mdf

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#3183510 18-Jan-2024 12:46

From NZTA on TwitterX:

certain types of very light EVs will be exempt from paying RUC. We’re currently looking at which vehicles should be exempt—electric mopeds and motorbikes are being considered. We’ll provide more details in due course once we’ve arrived at a decision

richms

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#3183522 18-Jan-2024 13:15

Obraik:

As an EV owner, I have no issue paying RUC. What I do have issue with is that I will now be paying more RUC than nearly all hybrids and other more efficient petrol vehicles. Using the current Corolla hatch as an example with an efficiency of 4.4L/100km, their RUC equivalent cost per km is 3c, whereas I with an EV that emits no emissions pays 7.6c/km. If the current government did truly believe this move was about fairness and equity as their press release states, then they would have made this change when they had done the work to move all vehicles to RUC and removed that component from fuel.

With the current fuel prices today my total per km will still be less in an EV (1c/km for power + 7.6c/km for RUC) but that doesn't negate the above.

The solution is that these efficient vehicles need to move from a fuel based RUC to a per km based one.

As an interim before moving all vehicles to RUC, they could for instance implement a lower RUC charge like they have for PHEVs for anything that gets below a set figure on its fuel economy to bring it up in line with what they should be contributing.

Richard rich.ms

gzt

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#3183527 18-Jan-2024 13:40

Imo it's perfectly reasonable to use standard in car odo for this + penalties for fraud and some auditing. Sure some people will still get away with it now and then but who cares it's on them.

I'm guessing the only reason the government is not moving forward with some sensible system is a desire to include everything in the kitchen sink including automatic toll roads.

Also political realism - applying odo ruc to existing petrol vehicles first would cause massive instant cofeve and goodbye government. Imo classify those petrol dinosaurs legacy vehicles and apply it to all new petrol vehicles going forward. Cofeve fixed.

gzt

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#3183528 18-Jan-2024 13:41

No worries about high distance trucking fraud they stay on heavy vehicle hub odo anyway.

lchiu7

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#3183535 18-Jan-2024 14:05

Somebody in this thread mentioned to take into account the issues with PHEV owners being double charged is for those owners to submit their petro receipts for credits. A worthy idea, but of course it has its issues. Firstly most fuel receipts don't have a plate number on them so it's not going to be easy to validate the receipts are for PHEV owners. Secondly asking NZTA so build any system quickly to do this is going to be fraught with errors and over runs. The Govt is not well know for Agile and fast application delivery.

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tdgeek

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#3183537 18-Jan-2024 14:14

lchiu7:

Somebody in this thread mentioned to take into account the issues with PHEV owners being double charged is for those owners to submit their petro receipts for credits. A worthy idea, but of course it has its issues. Firstly most fuel receipts don't have a plate number on them so it's not going to be easy to validate the receipts are for PHEV owners. Secondly asking NZTA so build any system quickly to do this is going to be fraught with errors and over runs. The Govt is not well know for Agile and fast application delivery.

The lower RUC allows for that. Is it ideal? No, but the PHEV pays less per km which will theoretically be topped up to by fuel used

ANglEAUT

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#3183549 18-Jan-2024 14:48

Just received from NZTA (via email):

You’ll need to buy road user charges (RUC) for your electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid from 1 April 2024.

We wanted to let you know about this now, so you have time to learn about RUC and be prepared.

You don’t need to buy RUC right now, but please read this email and take a look at the information on our website.

We’ll contact you again in March with more information about buying RUC and when you need to do it. ...

Batman

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#3183585 18-Jan-2024 16:24

People won't know that when I take my GPS speedometer (not the phone app) and check my speed, most cars are about 5-10% underreading. One of my cars is 14% lower on the speedo. Which means people will be paying more kms than they actually drive! Time to upsize Nissan leaf tyres by 30%!/jk (iirc it's 10% off)

HarmLessSolutions

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#3183594 18-Jan-2024 16:43

Batman: People won't know that when I take my GPS speedometer (not the phone app) and check my speed, most cars are about 5-10% underreading. One of my cars is 14% lower on the speedo. Which means people will be paying more kms than they actually drive! Time to upsize Nissan leaf tyres by 30%!/jk (iirc it's 10% off)

So the government could use this info in their selling GPS tracking of vehicles for RUCs "a ~10% saving over odometer based charging" /s

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