Muppets on the road

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#1009798 20-Mar-2014 12:46

freitasm:[...

If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

signal right as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.
If you are going 'straight' through a roundabout:

don't signal as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take. At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can.

With helpful pictures in link.

I'm still trying to figure out how this works with the 'signal for at least 3 seconds' rule. Are we supposed to drive past the exit before the one we wish to take, turn on the indicator, stop for 3 seconds and then proceed? Not sure how that is going to facilitate traffic flow.

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

freitasm

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#1009802 20-Mar-2014 12:51

jonathan18: ... and police focusing more on bad/dangerous driving (eg tail-gating) rather than the singular focus on speed.

If Police put focus on bad driving habits such as lack of/wrong indication, red lights running and a few others it would make life so much better for everyone else. Imagine driving without feeling the rage we all feel when a muppet does something bad, causes/almost causes an accident and goes unpunished.

dclegg

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#1009803 20-Mar-2014 12:51

floydbloke:
freitasm:[...

If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

signal right as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.
If you are going 'straight' through a roundabout:

don't signal as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take. At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can.

With helpful pictures in link.

I'm still trying to figure out how this works with the 'signal for at least 3 seconds' rule. Are we supposed to drive past the exit before the one we wish to take, turn on the indicator, stop for 3 seconds and then proceed? Not sure how that is going to facilitate traffic flow.

From the NZTA website

"At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can."

floydbloke

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#1009805 20-Mar-2014 12:54

dclegg:
floydbloke:
...

I'm still trying to figure out how this works with the 'signal for at least 3 seconds' rule. Are we supposed to drive past the exit before the one we wish to take, turn on the indicator, stop for 3 seconds and then proceed? Not sure how that is going to facilitate traffic flow.

From the NZTA website

"At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can."

Well spotted. Thanks.

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

NzBeagle

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#1009809 20-Mar-2014 13:00

andrew027: The other thing that bugs me is land splitting motorcyclists [braces self for backlash]. First, let me say that I have no problem with lane splitting as a concept. However I remember reading the rules for lane splitting in the motorcyclist's road code a few years ago and it said*[see note below] that, when lane splitting, the motorcyclist has to be in the left of the two lanes, to the right of the vehicle in that lane, not in the right lane, to the left of the vehicle in that lane. But I would say at least 80% of the motorcyclists I see lane splitting are in the right lane - or crossing the line between the left and right lanes as it suits them. I drive on the left of my lane. That's where the road code tells me I am supposed to be. My vehicle is not supposed to be in the middle of my lane - the road code recommends that my driver's seat should be in the centre of my lane. What this means is that when I'm in the right lane, there is no room for a motorcyclist on my left in my lane, but about twice a week I get dirty looks from motorcyclists who can't pass on my left, occasionally I get a beep of their horn, and once one of them thumped my bonnet as he went past. Why? Because my correct driving is preventing his incorrect driving?

I have also been advised this is the correct procedure for splitting and while trying to follow it with the best intentions, I often find it safer to remain centred in the space between two vehicles when passing through heavy traffic, which is generally on the right hand side of the centre line. I think many drivers may move to the right, as they attempt to see ahead of them, for whatever reason, and this is how I end up moving to the right of the centre line. There have been occasions when I've seen vehicles move to obstruct my travel, deliberate or otherwise, from either lane. This would be an occasion for presenting as disgruntled, although I'd probably not thump your bonnet as riding through traffic is perilous enough with two hands, let alone one.

There's always a way through, and I'm yet to see motorcycles clog up the motorways, but i'm also not hurting anyone by lane splitting, particularly on a rainy day when i'd rather be home dry. I realise I chose to ride, so it's my problem, so I don't generally pass my frustration onto enclosed and dry modes of transport. I also acknowledge that I'm splitting at my own risk. Hopefully this wasn't the "backlash" you were bracing for, just the view of the motorcyclist.

Buzz Bumble

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#1009811 20-Mar-2014 13:01

KiwiNZ: Roundabouts if used correctly by motorists greatly improve traffic flows, traffic lights are a fixed tailback creator.

In some cases i has little to do with drivers using the roundabout correctly. The problem is that some roundabouts are put where traffic lights are simply a better solution - where one busy roads meets others, a roundabout will always cause a queue on the road(s) that has to give way to the other busy road. When two of the roads are very busy ones, it can create very long queues, which is exactly what happens at one of the intersections I mentioned above.

That particular one is also badly placed on a slight rise, making it difficult to see cars coming in the opposite direction, AND has a separate bus-only lane leading into the roundabout which causes further issues (some drivers using it, drivers looking right to give way sometimes not knowing the bus is on their left). Others stupidly have trees or bushes planted in the middle (or illegal signage), which again makes visibility difficult.

Some roundabouts are put in mostly as a speed reducer. Another one of the roundabouts on the road above was recently redesigned to purposely give a tighter turn to force drivers to slow down more.

Some roundabouts are little more than bumps in the road, so many drivers simply go straight over the top.

New Zealand roads and motorway are extremely badly designed in far too many places, which along with bad drivers causes problems.

bener

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#1009836 20-Mar-2014 13:21

freitasm:
bener: The old rules provide a visible distinction between 'going straight through' and 'not indicating at all'... I think you should always signal your intention - indicate right past the first exit, then left before next exit - then it's all clear. I'm glad at least one other driver agrees!

Most people are not indicating at all, so there is no way to tell what they are going to do, and you therefore can never assume no indicator means going straight ahead...

To make it easier for everyone: Indicating on roundabouts.

If you are travelling more than halfway around a roundabout:

signal right as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take.
If you are going 'straight' through a roundabout:

don't signal as you come up to the roundabout
signal left as you pass the exit before the one you wish to take. At some small roundabouts it may not be possible to give three seconds warning, but it is courteous to give as much indication as you can.

With helpful pictures in link.

I totally understand the current rules, but I thing the going straight rule that includes 'don't signal as you come up the roundabout' leaves no distinction between someone who is going to quickly signal left after they pass the first exit, and someone who does not signal at all - I am of the opinion that it is a good idea to signal all movement, including indicating right past the first exit... In a perfect world where everyone did it right, the current method is more efficient, as someone waiting at the second exit can assume no signal upon entering means going straight (as first exit = signal left, third or later = signal right) - but so many people don't indicate at all, so you can never make the assumption!

A bit of a rant I know, but I really don't understand how so many people don't use their indicators - it's so easy. It makes me a little crazy.

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freitasm

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#1009838 20-Mar-2014 13:24

If you indicate right after the first exist even if you are going to take the second exit (going through) people on the other side will think you are actualy going AROUND the roundabout and have to stop until they see you actually indicated wrong and went the other way.

bakewells5856

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#1009840 20-Mar-2014 13:25

if you want to see some really bad driving then maybe you should visit a 3rd world country

Geektastic

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#1009842 20-Mar-2014 13:27

jarledb: Met this fellow on the road out of Napier Central today.

Unfortunately didn't get his registration number or I would have posted the video off to the Police.

This guy came through on the wrong side of the divider and the road and was having a good laugh at it.

Might have to fullscreen the video to see what happened. Not too dangerous but pretty stupid.

Not at all atypical I am sorry to say. I do about 25,000kms a year and see much worse than that almost every day of it!

I was once overtaken - by a truck - on the bridge as you come into Blenheim from Picton, for example!

Geektastic

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#1009843 20-Mar-2014 13:29

bakewells5856: if you want to see some really bad driving then maybe you should visit a 3rd world country

I spent 6 weeks in Cambodia last year.

It wasn't THAT much worse to be honest.

bener

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#1009846 20-Mar-2014 13:32

Personally, I don't have any issue with the "new" roundabout signalling rules - I think they make complete sense. The problem is that most people just don't know the rules - the classic one quoted above of signalling right when going straight drives me batty;

Does that include someone who signals right briefly to indicate they are passing the first exit (which signals your intention to drivers waiting at the first exit - as many people going left don't indicate at all) and then signals left as soon as they have moved past the beginning of the first exit? If you are waiting at the opposite exit you still have to wait to see what the on coming driver is doing regardless of their indications, and (if they do it right) their left indicator for the second exit should come on at the same time anyway, therefore not saving you any time.

I find this habit when going straight through stops a lot of people from shooting out in front of me at the first exit when they are not sure what I will do - surely your theory of 'always indicate' includes this? How would you otherwise distinguish between 'passing the first exit, no indicator until signalling left' and 'too lazy to indicate at all'?

sdav

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#1009852 20-Mar-2014 13:40

bener:
mattwnz:
freitasm:
jarledb: Yeah, I used to have high regards for NZ drivers (mostly because norwegian ones in the big city is pretty horrendous). But a little time on the roads and you do get to see some muppets.

Driving through a roundbabout today and noticed that out of five cars entering the roundabout two indicated right when in fact they were going straight (should indicate left just before the second exit to leave). Other two were in wrong lanes (one inside changed lanes in front of another car to exit and one on the exit lane change to the inside lane to continue) and another one just decided to leave the roundabout without indicating at all.

Many times on a roundabout I just slowdown and stop because I "feel" the other driver is going to do something different than what is being indicated - and most of the times I am right in doing so.

There is a bunch of muppets on the road in New Zealand.

I believe under the old road rules, you did have to signal right when going straight on, and then left on the last exit prior to leaving the roundabout. They have since changed that, as most of NZs roundabouts are so tiny, it caused confusion, and roundabouts weren't really designed to be so small. It is the people who don't indicaste at all that are the real problem. Many drivers are probably still using the old rules.
I do think calling these people Muppets, is too good for them. Muppets are kind of cool, these poor drivers are anything but.

The old rules provide a visible distinction between 'going straight through' and 'not indicating at all'... I think you should always signal your intention - indicate right past the first exit, then left before next exit - then it's all clear. I'm glad at least one other driver agrees!

Most people are not indicating at all, so there is no way to tell what they are going to do, and you therefore can never assume no indicator means going straight ahead...

Edit: actually, make that two other drivers.

Please no! I find that so annoying!

jonathan18

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#1009854 20-Mar-2014 13:41

Geektastic:
bakewells5856: if you want to see some really bad driving then maybe you should visit a 3rd world country

I spent 6 weeks in Cambodia last year.

It wasn't THAT much worse to be honest.

Perhaps it's a problem with lumping all "third world" countries together, as if they all share the same driving characteristics? My experience of being on the road in India during two different trips (one in the north; the other in the south) is that it's in another league to here. While I find many drivers bad in NZ, I don't have to frequently consider my mortality whenever I go on the open road! What is relatively rare here - eg treating the lane going the opposite direction as yet another lane for your own use, despite it having a steady flow of traffic going against you - is pretty much bog standard driving in India. Combine such driving "techniques" with many vehicles there lacking rudimentary "safety" features like seatbelts (and those that do often not being used), it's certainly the wild west of driving.

(I recall articles a few weeks back about the many new but cheap cars in India getting really low safety ratings - with the focus on the lowest possible price, even something we now see as standard like airbags are not present in these cars!)

sdav

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#1009859 20-Mar-2014 13:50

bener:

Personally, I don't have any issue with the "new" roundabout signalling rules - I think they make complete sense. The problem is that most people just don't know the rules - the classic one quoted above of signalling right when going straight drives me batty;

Does that include someone who signals right briefly to indicate they are passing the first exit (which signals your intention to drivers waiting at the first exit - as many people going left don't indicate at all) and then signals left as soon as they have moved past the beginning of the first exit? If you are waiting at the opposite exit you still have to wait to see what the on coming driver is doing regardless of their indications, and (if they do it right) their left indicator for the second exit should come on at the same time anyway, therefore not saving you any time.

I find this habit when going straight through stops a lot of people from shooting out in front of me at the first exit when they are not sure what I will do - surely your theory of 'always indicate' includes this? How would you otherwise distinguish between 'passing the first exit, no indicator until signalling left' and 'too lazy to indicate at all'?

I find it simple. Car indicating left = turning left (maybe, I will still wait lol). Car not indicating = straight through, turning right or left and have forgotten to indicate. Either way I'm not pulling out in front of a car that doesn't indicate. It's not like cars are required to signal that they are going straight every time they pass a side road.

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