Nissan LEAF - General

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#1508024 8-Mar-2016 11:46

Nissan would have been very naive if they thought nz government would bring in subsidies here.

Other than the fiber broadband, nz governments don't subsidize anything for the average person.

Maybe if Te Wai smelter closes and we have an extra 10% electricity, the government might encourage rollout of charging infrastructure to stop share prices of electricity companies tanking which wouldn't be a good look since the government only floated them recently...

wellygary

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#1508049 8-Mar-2016 12:13

afe66:Nissan would have been very naive if they thought nz government would bring in subsidies here.

Given there is nothing much in Australia in the way of subsidies for EV, It was never likely the Govt would do more in terms of an upfont subsidy,

ALthough the RUC exemption can actually add up if you using an EV for commuting and doing reasonable milage,

@50km a day + some weekend driving means you will do around 300km a week ~15000km a year, thats around $900 in RUC, so over 10 years thats 9K, so its not to be totally ignored...

robjg63

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#1508052 8-Mar-2016 12:24

Oddly I have seen quite a few mentions of places buying Leafs for their fleets etc.

The publicity seems o have increased just as they withdrew them.

That said they have been selling old model/runouts for a while now - The newer model with a longer range might actually be pretty good......

They were very overpriced before they got hold of that old Aussie supplied model stock - so if they returned to that prior price, they were something crazy like $70k

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afe66

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#1508158 8-Mar-2016 15:08

I wonder why they don't buy them second hand from UK /Japan and resell them here as second hand cars with a bit of a warrantee.

Should be able to do that cheaper than the private second hand dealers.

ie like Mitsubishi used to with their diamond class second hand cars

Do it for a couple of years to get the brand loyalty and support infrastructure being place then slowly rise prices with the 3rd generation models when they come out.

BrentR

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#1508170 8-Mar-2016 15:24

Gazley who are a Nissan have imported a few Leafs
http://www.gazley.com/used-vehicles?make=16&model=2130610184&v=gallery&listingType=used

Linuxluver

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#1508284 8-Mar-2016 16:46

afe66:

Nissan would have been very naive if they thought nz government would bring in subsidies here.

Other than the fiber broadband, nz governments don't subsidize anything for the average person.

Maybe if Te Wai smelter closes and we have an extra 10% electricity, the government might encourage rollout of charging infrastructure to stop share prices of electricity companies tanking which wouldn't be a good look since the government only floated them recently...

A.

Well.......

Roads

Schools

Health care

...and many others... Lots of things are subsidized or paid for completely for the ordinary person.

The issue here is whether or not the government will do anything to lower carbon emissions or simply be seen to be doing something. Maintaining it's pure "market forces" approach is a recipe for failure....and we have seen that over and over from education, to air travel to railways to electricity. People want want simple services that get the job done at a reasonable price....and if we can build in incentives for behaviours that are more environmentally friendly, so much the better.

But this isn't the government that is going to behave that way. We would need a different one.

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Oncop53

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#1508320 8-Mar-2016 17:10

Linuxluver:

Well.......

Roads

Schools

Health care

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what has the [Government] ever done for us?

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dwl

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#1508446 8-Mar-2016 20:39

andrew027:
I was thinking about this thread on Saturday - went to have a look around the fair in Jackson St, Petone, Lower Hutt, and EVImports were there getting people interested in used Leafs. They had two or three vehicles and quite a crowd when I was there.

I was one of those raising awareness of EVs at the Petone Fair and we did the same at Martinborough Fair on Saturday and Southwards open day on Sunday. It was heartening to see how much interest exists. At Petone we handed out nearly 500 copies of the 12 page guide developed by an owner to help raise awareness - updated copy is at http://www.electricheaven.nz/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-3March2016.pdf for those interested.

Linuxluver

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#1508509 8-Mar-2016 22:00

dwl:
andrew027:

I was thinking about this thread on Saturday - went to have a look around the fair in Jackson St, Petone, Lower Hutt, and EVImports were there getting people interested in used Leafs. They had two or three vehicles and quite a crowd when I was there.

I was one of those raising awareness of EVs at the Petone Fair and we did the same at Martinborough Fair on Saturday and Southwards open day on Sunday. It was heartening to see how much interest exists. At Petone we handed out nearly 500 copies of the 12 page guide developed by an owner to help raise awareness - updated copy is at http://www.electricheaven.nz/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-3March2016.pdf for those interested.

I'd buy one tomorrow, but the other half thinks buying a petrol car for a 1/3 the price is better value. She's right as long as you ignore the part about moving to a new paradigm now....so it will become easier in the future for myself and others. If we always wait for OTHER early adopters to clear the way.....sometimes the way remains blocked.

Back in 1980, someone bought those $3,000 VCRs......

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Scott3

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#1508554 8-Mar-2016 23:33

afe66:

I wonder why they don't buy them second hand from UK /Japan and resell them here as second hand cars with a bit of a warrantee.

Should be able to do that cheaper than the private second hand dealers.

ie like Mitsubishi used to with their diamond class second hand cars

Do it for a couple of years to get the brand loyalty and support infrastructure being place then slowly rise prices with the 3rd generation models when they come out.

This is a great idea. Third party importers are bring in 2015 Leaf's with under 5000km, that are listed on trade me for around $32k to $35k.

If Nissan NZ were to do this, reflash the computer to english, swap the FM & cellular modules to NZ ones, and add a three year warranty they could move the cars as certified pre owned for say $39,000.

That would leave $4000 - $7000 plus the third party importers margin to cover the cost of the mods, warranty and profit margin.

I recon people (especially fleet buyers) would pay this extra cost for a Nissan NZ backed warranty & English display.

Only risk is Nissan Global is seen to be taking the piss with the Japanese EV subsidies by having it's NZ subsidiary buying up used cars under two years old for export. (that the Japanese government has subsidized to the tune of NZ$10k)

wellygary

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#1533109 14-Apr-2016 16:41

You have got to wonder if the Nissan Leaf decision was not made with full understanding that Renault were about to Launch the Zoe Here?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/78914646/Say-hello-to-Zoe-Renaults-electric-offering

old3eyes

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#1533152 14-Apr-2016 18:30

At $65,208 plus GST they're not going to sell many..

Regards,

Old3eyes

gzt

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#1533178 14-Apr-2016 19:44

Some people do not buy Japanese for fashion reasons, so this could suit them.

In that segment 20K less than i3 and longer range, smaller car.

Scott3

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#1533273 14-Apr-2016 23:43

gzt: Some people do not buy Japanese for fashion reasons, so this could suit them.

In that segment 20K less than i3 and longer range, smaller car.

Renault Zoe: $65,208 plus GST = 75k

BMW i3 Rex (Range extended) = 83k

The BMW i3 is much better car in my opinion. Carbon fiber construction, much faster, With petrol range extender (only version offend new in NZ), RWD.

i3 is a touch smaller than the Zoe:

Specs

BMW i3

Power: 170 bhp

Torque: 184 lbs ft

Transmission: Single speed, automatic

Driven Wheels: Rear

0-62: 7.2 seconds (without Range Extender)

Range: 80-100 miles (electric-only)

Length: 3,999 mm

Width: 1,775 mm

Height: 1,597 mm

Kerb Weight: 1,195 kg (electric-only) 1,315 kg (REX)

OTR Price: £30, 680 (electric-only) £33,830 (REX)

Renault ZOE

Power: 88 bhp @ 3,000 – 11,300 rpm

Torque: 162 lbs ft @ 250 – 2,100 rpm

Transmission: Single speed, automatic

Driven Wheels: Front

0-62: 13.5 seconds

Range: 130 miles

Length: 4,084 mm

Width: 1,945 mm

Height: 1,562 mm

Kerb Weight: 1,468 kg

OTR Price: £15,195 (including Government Plug-In Car Grant of £5,000)

Note that UK zoe price excludes the battery which you need to rent (or buy for £7,000)

For the private buyer the used imports are so much of a better deal that I doubt the will sell any zoe's outside of the fleet market.

[EDIT]

"You have got to wonder if the Nissan Leaf decision was not made with full understanding that Renault were about to Launch the Zoe Here?"

Nissan and Renault have a strong electric vehicle allowance, so I doubt it.

For Nissan NZ it would have to do with being undercut by UK and Japan subsidies car's coming in as used imports.

Originally they sold the leaf for $70k. They sold so slowly, and Nissan cut their price to $60k after a year or so. The Nissan leaf's sold so poorly in Aust that Nissan Australia dumped many of their unsold leaf's here at a very low price. This was when Nissan NZ cut their price to $40k (these were cars that were manufactured in 2011 being sold as 2015/2015 cars... (These car's are the only Leaf's with spare tires if you are interested where your's came from).

Nissan NZ stated if they got another batch they would need to sell them way higher than $40k. Given a new (much better model, possibly with twice) the range is expected in the next 2 years (not yet announced). If sales were slower than expected Nissan NZ could still have the current model for sale when the new shape starts coming in as used imports from japan/UK. They would be very hard to sell then.

I feel for Nissan NZ. Without NZ subsidies, it is really hard for them to compete with used imports.

dwl

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Ultimate Geek

#1533330 15-Apr-2016 05:17

Good summary @Scott3. Hopefully they may be able to get fleet sales (possibly with bulk discounts helping).

For those in Wellington, there should be one (Zoe) down at the railway station this morning along with the vehicles on #LeadingTheCharge which includes the BMW i3. TVNZ breakfast will be there.

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