Petition to reduce EV RUCs

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#3201949 1-Mar-2024 11:28

reven:
I think its cray the RUC for my ev are the same as my preivous diesel ute.

Fine with RUC, but the pricing is crazy.

Does your EV Use less Road than your ute did?

MikeB4

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#3201950 1-Mar-2024 11:29

By definition RUCs are tax, that is a compulsory financial charge levied by a government or government agencies. It is logical and prudent that taxation is gathered by the least possible means to maximise the effectiveness of that levy or levies. Waka Kotahi's focus should planning and building infrastructure not money collection. The additional expenses of collection such as duplication of systems, staff, billing, accounting etc reduces the the net available monies for their core task.

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#3201951 1-Mar-2024 11:30

Ge0rge:
reven:

I think its cray the RUC for my ev are the same as my preivous diesel ute.

Fine with RUC, but the pricing is crazy.

Does your EV Use less Road than your ute did?

why yes, its smaller and lighter.

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#3201952 1-Mar-2024 11:31

Ge0rge:

Does your EV Use less Road than your ute did?

My EV does. It uses less than a Swift or old school Mini 😀

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#3201954 1-Mar-2024 11:42

MikeB4:
Ge0rge:

Does your EV Use less Road than your ute did?

My EV does. It uses less than a Swift or old school Mini 😀

Touché, Mike.

networkn

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#3201964 1-Mar-2024 12:15

Scott3:

The RUC exemption was a material factor in my running costs model.

I don't have an issue paying my fair share.

Two things;

1) What is the average cost for pure EV's in NZ compared to the same equivialent vehicle non EV? Even without comparing against non EV, it will be a substantial difference.

2) Your two quoted comments directly conflict with each other.

As for your comment on weight, it most certainly isn't irrelevant. A LOT of EV's are well over 2 tonnes. With a significant number of EV's on the road and ever increasing due to these 'incentives' it will absolutely have a material impact over time.

Senecio

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#3201967 1-Mar-2024 12:21

Scott3:

As an EV owner, I am fine with paying road tax, just think that paying ~2.4x the road tax of a Yaris hybrid is a bit inequitable.

Road user charges have always been inequitable, why the public outcry now? Oh, it didn’t impact you before. Now I understand.

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#3201971 1-Mar-2024 12:33

Senecio:

Road user charges have always been inequitable, why the public outcry now? Oh, it didn’t impact you before. Now I understand.

It is not the inequality that is the issue. It's always going to be inequitable to someone.

It is that it is inequitable in a way that is the opposite to what we want to achieve, i.e. reduced carbon emissions.

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empacher48

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#3201973 1-Mar-2024 12:37

Scott3:

Can't speak for others, but I paid around $12k for my EV. The RUC exemption was a material factor in my running costs model.

I don't have an issue paying my fair share. But I feel paying the same road tax as an aqua or fielder hybrid would be fair. As the proposal stands I will be paying more than double. The difference is so dramatic, it means a small toyota hybrid will replace the leaf as most economical option for commuters etc.

On weight, the damage done by all light vehicles to the roads is negligible, so it is not a relevant factor

Something that no EV owner has been able to answer for me.

If the RUC rate was reduced to $35/1000km, you would be happy with ALL VEHICLES in that weight band to pay the same? So a Ford Ranger pays that?

Because if they shouldn’t because it’s a polluting Ute, then really shouldn’t we have emissions taxes on the fuel and not have multiple RUC rates depending on what powers the vehicle?

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#3201974 1-Mar-2024 12:39

empacher48:

Something that no EV owner has been able to answer for me.

If the RUC rate was reduced to $35/1000km, you would be happy with ALL VEHICLES in that weight band to pay the same? So a Ford Ranger pays that?

Because if they shouldn’t because it’s a polluting Ute, then really shouldn’t we have emissions taxes on the fuel and not have multiple RUC rates depending on what powers the vehicle?

Yes. I would even be OK with all vehicles paying $76/km*. It's to pay for the road, not the pollution.

*They can do away with that ridiculous $12 admin fee though. WTH is that, are they paying for a team from KPMG to personally audit every transaction?

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#3201975 1-Mar-2024 12:42

Senecio:

Road user charges have always been inequitable, why the public outcry now? Oh, it didn’t impact you before. Now I understand.

If you make changes in the name making a group pay their fair share, you should probably make sure what you're proposing is actually fair.

empacher48

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#3201976 1-Mar-2024 12:47

SaltyNZ:

Yes. I would even be OK with all vehicles paying $76/km*. It's to pay for the road, not the pollution.

*They can do away with that ridiculous $12 admin fee though. WTH is that, are they paying for a team from KPMG to personally audit every transaction?

I agree, not surprisingly a large amount of people don’t.

The admin fee is high, but since I’ve always bought RUC in 10,000km blocks it isn’t too bad. I feel for those who can only buy it in smaller blocks for their budget.

When all vehicles have to pay RUC, there will have to be a rethink of how it works.

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#3201981 1-Mar-2024 13:01

SaltyNZ:

It is not the inequality that is the issue. It's always going to be inequitable to someone.

It is that it is inequitable in a way that is the opposite to what we want to achieve, i.e. reduced carbon emissions.

2 posts later

Yes. I would even be OK with all vehicles paying $76/km*. It's to pay for the road, not the pollution.

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#3201984 1-Mar-2024 13:11

Dingbatt:

SaltyNZ:

It is not the inequality that is the issue. It's always going to be inequitable to someone.

It is that it is inequitable in a way that is the opposite to what we want to achieve, i.e. reduced carbon emissions.

2 posts later

Yes. I would even be OK with all vehicles paying $76/km*. It's to pay for the road, not the pollution.

I think I've been clear all along: my preference, and what I submitted to NZTA, and you seemed to agree with at the time, is for all vehicles to pay equally for their road use under the RUC scheme.

If that is not the case, then RUCs need to be geared to achieve the desired outcome - favouring zero-emission vehicles.

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#3201992 1-Mar-2024 13:28

networkn:

Two things;

1) What is the average cost for pure EV's in NZ compared to the same equivialent vehicle non EV? Even without comparing against non EV, it will be a substantial difference.

2) Your two quoted comments directly conflict with each other.

As for your comment on weight, it most certainly isn't irrelevant. A LOT of EV's are well over 2 tonnes. With a significant number of EV's on the road and ever increasing due to these 'incentives' it will absolutely have a material impact over time.

I don't have average cost data, but the below data below is for all time registrations:

https://evdb.nz/most-popular-evs-nz

In the case of my leaf, it is currently worth substantially less (about half) compared to an aqua / fielder of the same year.

Other EV's are the other way around (such as a brand new MG ZS EV is priced at double the petrol version of the same car).

I feel the point you are trying to get at is that ~$1000 a year is immaterial to somebody who paid the $25k premium for the MG ZS EV over the petrol version. Depending on circumstances this may or may not be true, but it doesn't change that this benefit is already consumed, and should not be justification for future unfavorable treatment.

I don't think my comments conflict, but for clarity, the RUC exemption was always a temporary thing to encourage EV uptake (to about 2% of the light vehicle fleet). It made my EV purchase some time ago more financially attractive, and now we have reached the 2% mark I am ok to pay my fair share to use the roads.

I stand by my prior comment on weight. Any light vehicle (sub 3500kg gvm) is doing negligible damage to the road's.

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