Signed.

Found a similar one also which expires at midnight tonight: https://petitions.parliament.nz/7d27688d-4c70-4904-a964-08dc186b8b6e

Signed

- Petrol Car Owner. 

I find it ironic that the petition closes on April Fools Day.  ROTFLMAO

What's the justification? A reward for being slightly greener than an ICE car owner? No, the petition starter sees it as being unfair because the "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars" (whatever that means) would only pay the equivalent of $35/1000kms in excise tax.

By this logic, I should also start a petition to reduce diesel RUC by the same amount to bring the price in line with the "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars". After all, diesel utes and EVs probably weigh similar amounts and therefore wear the roads similarly.

I think the petitioner forgets that RUC is not a dirty fuel tax, it's a road/infrastructure tax. If anything, all this petition will do is highlight to the government that the petrol exise tax is clearly not high enough...

johno1234: Not signing. However admin fee should be wiped and funded from general taxation.

Yup, also not signing this, even as someone who's next car is 90% likely electric. EV owners have had a free ride on RUC for quite a while, it's fair they pay their fair share, especially as EV's are often heavier, and therefore put more stress on the roads they use as much as anyone else. 

The Petitioner seems to fail to understand this is a ROAD USER CHARGE, as Road Users, EV drivers/owners should carry their share of the load. 

Hello, I started this petition. Thank you for posting and discussing it here.

I would like to answer some of the points raised above.

I agree it is not likely the petition will get much traction with current government and parliament. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see it presented.  

I also agree EV owners should pay their way. We had a good run free pf RUC so far and that has served its purpose to incentivise EV uptake.

The petition is asking that EVs pay same RUC rate as similar size popular and modern petrol vehicles currently do trough the petrol price currently.

Parliament petitions only allow 500 characters to explain the reason. I have crammed as much as I could there.

If of interest, a much more detailed explanation is available in this article, including sources of data and what I consider "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars".

https://evsandbeyond.co.nz/ev-ruc-petition-to-parliament/ 

@Wheelbarrow01 – I have not done a research on diesel cars RUC, as I am not driving one and am not interested in that, but suspect many of them may be in a similar situation. You can do the research and submit a petition if that spins your wheels 😊. The underlying common cause is current RUC tariffs do not differentiate between a small passenger car (be it EV or diesel, if there are any such) and a mid sized commercial truck. Everything under 3.5 tons pays the same RUC rate.

Cheers,
Philip

Wheelbarrow01: What's the justification? A reward for being slightly greener than an ICE car owner? No, the petition starter sees it as being unfair because the "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars" (whatever that means) would only pay the equivalent of $35/1000kms in excise tax.

Wheelbarrow01:

 

What's the justification? A reward for being slightly greener than an ICE car owner? No, the petition starter sees it as being unfair because the "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars" (whatever that means) would only pay the equivalent of $35/1000kms in excise tax.

 

By this logic, I should also start a petition to reduce diesel RUC by the same amount to bring the price in line with the "most economical top 5 similar petrol cars". After all, diesel utes and EVs probably weigh similar amounts and therefore wear the roads similarly.

 

I think the petitioner forgets that RUC is not a dirty fuel tax, it's a road/infrastructure tax. If anything, all this petition will do is highlight to the government that the petrol exise tax is clearly not high enough...

 

The petition is calling for (sub 2000kg empty weight) EV's to pay comparable road tax to an economical petrol car.

As the rules currently stand, come April 1 all EV's will pay about 2.4x the road tax of a Yaris hybrid.

The underlying issue here is that any non plug in petrol car burning under about 9L/100km gets a better deal road tax wise, than a RUC paying vehicle (regardless if that is diesel or electric), and for smaller petrol hybrids, this difference can be dramatic.

In the case of diesel Utes, as the petrol versions have historically burnt more than 9L/100km, this has encouraged the purchase of diesel engine utes over petrol ones, to the point that few brands offer petrol utes in the market now. But yeah, the situation for diesels is also unfair. No real reason a Santa Fe diesel should be paying 30% odd more to use the roads than a Highlander Hybrid, just because of it's fuel.

In the case of small diesel car's (Swift diesel, vw polo bluemotion etc), where the petrol versions use well under 9L/100km, our RUC policy absolutely killed the market for them, to the point that they are no longer offered in NZ. (with hindsight this was very fortunate given the impacts they had on urban air quality in europe, but this was by luck, not design).

Cheaper EV's are basically going to get the same treatment and impact as the small diesel car's (lets face it, people are going to be cross shopping a leaf with a toyota aqua, not a mustang v8).

All the petition is asking for is that EV's get taxed at a similar amount to small petrol car's for the interim period until RUC's are rolled out to all vehicles. It's not fair, but will avoid an aggressive swing away from EV's to petrol hybrids, and then the reverse, when petrol hybrids get charged RUC's.

On petrol exercise tax not being enough, yeah, we could increase it by 2.4x to level a yaris hyrbid with an EV in terms of road tax, but this is unlikely to fly politically, as the poor family running a 15+ year old minivan at 12L/100km would get absolutely slammed.

Only fair way to solve this is to roll out RUC to all vehicles, until that time, we need to pick winners and losers. Picking Petrol hybrids as the winner (and by comparisons EV's to be the looser), seems questionable given our countries climate commitments. 

I have signed it, but do have some criticisms:

• Weight limit is on empty weight. Convention for RUC's is done by fully laden weight (Gross vehicle mass / GVM)
• Weight for light vehicles is immaterial, they all do negligible road damage, so RUC is really just paying for space, not damage. As such, might as well keep it at 3500kg for consistency with existing weight bands.
• Road tax is equivalency is calculated off 5.0L/100km. Class leading petrol hybrids beat this by a long way. Yaris hybrid per the toyota NZ website is rated at 3.0 L/100km (3P-WLTP)*.
• Even if the admin fees seem excessive, it is not really fair to get general taxation to pick this up.

Scott3:

 

The underlying issue here is that any non plug in petrol car burning under about 9L/100km gets a better deal road tax wise, than a RUC paying vehicle (regardless if that is diesel or electric), and for smaller petrol hybrids, this difference can be dramatic.

 

In the case of diesel Utes, as the petrol versions have historically burnt more than 9L/100km, this has encouraged the purchase of diesel engine utes over petrol ones, to the point that few brands offer petrol utes in the market now. But yeah, the situation for diesels is also unfair. No real reason a Santa Fe diesel should be paying 30% odd more to use the roads than a Highlander Hybrid, just because of it's fuel.

 

In the case of small diesel car's (Swift diesel, vw polo bluemotion etc), where the petrol versions use well under 9L/100km, our RUC policy absolutely killed the market for them, to the point that they are no longer offered in NZ. (with hindsight this was very fortunate given the impacts they had on urban air quality in europe, but this was by luck, not design).

 

Cheaper EV's are basically going to get the same treatment and impact as the small diesel car's (lets face it, people are going to be cross shopping a leaf with a toyota aqua, not a mustang v8).

 

All the petition is asking for is that EV's get taxed at a similar amount to small petrol car's for the interim period until RUC's are rolled out to all vehicles. It's not fair, but will avoid an aggressive swing away from EV's to petrol hybrids, and then the reverse, when petrol hybrids get charged RUC's.

 

 

 

On petrol exercise tax not being enough, yeah, we could increase it by 2.4x to level a yaris hyrbid with an EV in terms of road tax, but this is unlikely to fly politically, as the poor family running a 15+ year old minivan at 12L/100km would get absolutely slammed.

 

 

 

Only fair way to solve this is to roll out RUC to all vehicles, until that time, we need to pick winners and losers. Picking Petrol hybrids as the winner (and by comparisons EV's to be the looser), seems questionable given our countries climate commitments. 

 

That is one of Nationals policies so it will be happening. The upcoming changes in short term are only for a short duration and will have winners and losers, but many taxes are not fair for all. But it is offset by the fact that up till now EV owners haven't been paying anything to use the roads. The main losers will be those who have only recently purchased an EV, or a plugin hybrid. 

Quite a mixed response of opinions to this issue.  If you sign the petition it makes sense to also email the Minister or Transport Simeon Brown.

S.Brown@ministers.govt.nz

Interesting artical from Glenn Turner in the ODT earlier this week:

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/additional-road-user-charges-evs-%E2%80%94-fairness-and-equity

Ge0rge:

johno1234: Not signing. However admin fee should be wiped and funded from general taxation.

I disagree - why should people who don't own cars subsidise those that do? I agree that the admin fee should be less though.

- diesel vehicle owner.

Any fee that's impossible to avoid isn't an 'extra' fee, it's part of the price. 

Happy as an EV owner to pay whatever the RUC equivalent my old Corolla would have generated, but my understanding is that I would be paying a substantially higher rate than my (would have been) 24 year Corolla would.