EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1831717 26-Jul-2017 16:21

ubergeeknz:

MarkH67:

Review of the Bolt: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-chevrolet-bolt/review/?ftag=CAD13782fc&bhid=21042758824545532419883291182906

Are those going to be sold here?

Anecdotally, it seems GM are causing the Bolt to fail on purpose, artificially restricting supply, etc. There's an Opel branded version called the "Ampera-e" in the Europe market. There's no RHD version yet.

And from what GM have said its unlikely they will retool for a RHD version,

On the production issue, I think GM are playing a bit of cat and mouse with Tesla and its Model 3,

Both are likely to lose access to the Federal EV rebate in early 2018,(200K EV sales per company ) but if GM sell too many EVs this year, then Telsa gets a $7,500 price advantage until they cross the line...

its a bit like those America's Cup starts with the boats doing turns around each other before they finally actually get down to competing....

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#1831808 26-Jul-2017 19:20

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

We obsoleted people with the first mainframes. And paper. Actually we didnt, we created paper, kept the people and got more done.

EV and automation wise, it wont happen overnight. It will reduce costs, thats a good thing. Mechanics will slowly evolve to mechanics, with a more electrical twist.

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#1831810 26-Jul-2017 19:23

UHD:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Linuxluver:

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

...and the people you used to phone to get authorisations on credit card purchases. Those jobs are dead....and they used to be well-paid. I id it for a couple of years in Toronto in the early 80s. The pay was 3 times the minimum wage.

That's the other trend here.....it's often the better-paid jobs that get the disappearing treatment.

Lawyers and doctors and dentists....looking at you here. Especially anything to do with surgery. A robot will be more precise and careful than any human where surgery is concerned.

What absolute rubbish.

I had minor surgery last year, and the surgeon during the procedure observed with his eyes that what was being operated on was larger than expected. He, and his surgical team took steps to solve the issue, leaving me with the better option in terms of recovery. I doubt a robot, programmed with a specific set of procedures, would be able to make those same decisions in the best interest of the patient.

Cars have been driven significantly better by robots than people for a few years now. I cannot see why surgical procedures are necessarily any different.

I agree. Humans cause human error. Surgery will take time, but it will happen. It will probably be a very very good assistant, and graduate eventually. The doctors who become redundant will still be there, doing research. Imagine if every doctor we have now was doing research? Great.

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#1831853 26-Jul-2017 21:09

tdgeek:

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

We obsoleted people with the first mainframes. And paper. Actually we didnt, we created paper, kept the people and got more done.

EV and automation wise, it wont happen overnight. It will reduce costs, thats a good thing. Mechanics will slowly evolve to mechanics, with a more electrical twist.

That would be nice.....except what makes this different is the rapid development of AI. It doesn't need to eat, sleep or rest.It doesn't need pay. It doesn't have arguments with spouses or get into fights at pubs.

When AI can do your job, your job is gone....and not coming back. Any new jobs will likely be AI-enabled from the start. That is what is going to be different. That has never been the case before.

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#1831875 26-Jul-2017 21:37

Received today:

Transport Minister Simon Bridges and Energy and Resources Minister Judith Collins have announced the Government’s 2017 electric vehicle (EV) registrations target has been achieved 5 months early.

“This is great news and a reflection of the work undertaken by the Government and private sector in normalising the purchase and integration of EVs into the New Zealand vehicle fleet,” Mr Bridges says.

“Currently, around 200 EVs are registered monthly with a total of 4,027 EVs now registered in New Zealand. If registrations continue to increase, as we have seen this year, we will be on track to meet our challenging target of 64,000 EVs registered in New Zealand by the end of 2021.

“The positive acceptance of EVs in New Zealand is having real benefits. The rising uptake has led to increased manufacturer confidence. They are now offering more choice in new EVs than ever before. We are also seeing an increase in the number of used EVs importers are bringing into the country.

“It is great that both private and public sector organisations are helping uptake by choosing EVs over conventional petrol or diesel vehicles for their fleets. Over the past year we’ve also seen an increase in businesses opting for EVs as non-passenger vehicles, including light vans for food delivery, public transport and refuse trucks, all of which are great uses for EVs,” Mr Bridges says.

“Going electric is not only good for business, but makes best use of New Zealand’s plentiful renewable energy supply, improves air quality and minimises greenhouse gas emissions,” Ms Collins says.

“The recent announcement by Volvo, that from 2019 all new models it produces will be fully electric or plug-in hybrid, shows there is a changing global perception of how EVs are perceived. These latest figures show that New Zealand is on the right track.”

In May 2016, the Government announced its Electric Vehicles Programme, a wide ranging package of measures to encourage the uptake of EVs in New Zealand. The target is to double the fleet each year, reaching 64,000 EV registrations by the end of 2021.

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#1832105 27-Jul-2017 11:04

“... a reflection of the work undertaken by the Government and private sector ...

I would argue the Government have done very little to push uptake, except perhaps the RUC exemption, and small registration reduction, which does help with running costs. More has probably been done in the private sector to promote EV, driven largely by enthusiasts and a few keen car dealers.

Rebates on new EV purchases would go a long way towards promoting EV uptake.

There's also work to do around the way FBT works in favour of large vehicles (utes and vans) even where there's no business justification.

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#1832123 27-Jul-2017 11:32

“The recent announcement by Volvo, that from 2019 all new models it produces will be fully electric or plug-in hybrid,

Except Volvo didn't say that,

it said,

Volvo Cars will introduce a portfolio of electrified cars across its model range, embracing fully electric cars, plug in hybrid cars and mild hybrid cars

https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/210058/volvo-cars-to-go-all-electric

Mild hybrid: Small power output from the electrical unit and battery. The electrical unit stores energy from braking and generates power for auxiliary systems such as the climate unit and cooling fans, and also assists somewhat in propelling the vehicle.

http://www.volvogroup.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/VGHQ/Volvo%20Group/Volvo%20Group/Our%20values/Environment/Hybrids,%20Eng.pdf

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#1832131 27-Jul-2017 11:43

ubergeeknz:

“... a reflection of the work undertaken by the Government and private sector ...

I would argue the Government have done very little to push uptake, except perhaps the RUC exemption, and small registration reduction, which does help with running costs. More has probably been done in the private sector to promote EV, driven largely by enthusiasts and a few keen car dealers.

Rebates on new EV purchases would go a long way towards promoting EV uptake.

There's also work to do around the way FBT works in favour of large vehicles (utes and vans) even where there's no business justification.

If they had, us ordinary people would know that EV's are a thing, and we would be talking about it, especially the ads on TV that show how good they are, low cost to run and maintain, and green NZ, we would be talking about it. It would become less a geek, niche, "sounds to good' issue. But no, none of that.

I reckon if I asked 10 randoms they would know nothing, half probably wont know what EV means

MarkH67

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#1832325 27-Jul-2017 15:18

tdgeek:

If they had, us ordinary people would know that EV's are a thing, and we would be talking about it, especially the ads on TV that show how good they are, low cost to run and maintain, and green NZ, we would be talking about it. It would become less a geek, niche, "sounds to good' issue. But no, none of that.

I reckon if I asked 10 randoms they would know nothing, half probably wont know what EV means

I have to agree with the idea that the government could be doing a lot more - and should be.

For NZ switching to BEVs (battery electric vehicles) is definitely a good thing in several ways. There is a huge benefit to switching from imported fuel to locally produced electricity, amongst other things this improves our balance of trade. There is also the security of supply issue when relying on imported fuel. Currently when there is a surge in demand for fuel our prices go up, we pay more or we don't get fuel for our vehicles, wouldn't it be great to not have to worry about international markets?

Of course there is our country's clean green image, this is very important to us considering how much we rely on tourism. Our image should be preserved or even enhanced, we should strive to be world leaders in green energy production and other proactive environmental initiatives like encouraging as rapid growth as possible of BEVs on our roads.

Of course there are limitations today with only a few BEV options, but that is changing VERY fast. There are more and more BEV options from many manufacturers - Nissan, Hyundai, Renault, VW, Tesla, etc. Over the next five years we will see just about all the major car makers getting in on this trend - including Chinese brands. If over half the new cars sold were BEVs within 10 years that would be fantastic - and I think that is actually quite doable. We also need new cars sold to be electric so that in a few years there will be many more second hand electric cars available. The more >300km range cars that become available the more people that will consider BEVs to be a practical option.

If the government pushed the BEV uptake harder then there would be more reason for manufacturers to make more BEVs and export them to NZ. There would also be more places to charge BEVs which would encourage more people to buy BEVs which would lead to an increase in the number of charging stations which would get more people buying BEVs which would . . . Basically we want to get this snowball growing until we get a full on avalanche of BEVs sold in NZ.

wellygary

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#1832367 27-Jul-2017 16:21

If you think its rough here take a look across the ditch...

https://climateworks.com.au/sites/default/files/documents/publications/state_of_evs_final.pdf

They sold a total of only 1300 EVs and PHEVs in 2016 (701 plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and 668 pure EVs)

and sales FELL 23% from 2015.

Even when local manufacturing of cars ceases this year, it will still not be possible to import second hand vehicles.... (ie leafs) unless they are under 12 months old and have less than 500 kilometres...

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#1832371 27-Jul-2017 16:26

wellygary:

If you think its rough here take a look across the ditch...

https://climateworks.com.au/sites/default/files/documents/publications/state_of_evs_final.pdf

They sold a total of only 1300 EVs and PHEVs in 2016 (701 plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and 668 pure EVs)

and sales FELL 23% from 2015.

Even when local manufacturing of cars ceases this year, it will still not be possible to import second hand vehicles.... (ie leafs) unless they are under 12 months old and have less than 500 kilometres...

Industry protectionism at it's finest. See also: uptake of Solar energy in Australia (90% hot, sunsoaked desert! But we still have a lot of coal in the ground)

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#1832396 27-Jul-2017 16:56

ubergeeknz:

“... a reflection of the work undertaken by the Government and private sector ...

I would argue the Government have done very little to push uptake, except perhaps the RUC exemption, and small registration reduction, which does help with running costs. More has probably been done in the private sector to promote EV, driven largely by enthusiasts and a few keen car dealers.

Rebates on new EV purchases would go a long way towards promoting EV uptake.

There's also work to do around the way FBT works in favour of large vehicles (utes and vans) even where there's no business justification.

Agreed.

The answer is simple if the government was serious about any of it They aren't.

They would introduce emissions standards.

They would bring in a carbon tax and use the proceeds to fund renewable energy projects, including EV uptake and charging infrastructure.

They would levy a gradually rising duty on the purchase of fossil fuel vehicles.....and use the levy to rebate against the cost of buying EVs.

These changes alone would change NZ transport at light speed.

But the government isn't serious. It's mostly talk.

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#1832407 27-Jul-2017 17:09

Linuxluver:

ubergeeknz:

“... a reflection of the work undertaken by the Government and private sector ...

I would argue the Government have done very little to push uptake, except perhaps the RUC exemption, and small registration reduction, which does help with running costs. More has probably been done in the private sector to promote EV, driven largely by enthusiasts and a few keen car dealers.

Rebates on new EV purchases would go a long way towards promoting EV uptake.

There's also work to do around the way FBT works in favour of large vehicles (utes and vans) even where there's no business justification.

Agreed.

The answer is simple if the government was serious about any of it They aren't.

They would introduce emissions standards.

They would bring in a carbon tax and use the proceeds to fund renewable energy projects, including EV uptake and charging infrastructure.

They would levy a gradually rising duty on the purchase of fossil fuel vehicles.....and use the levy to rebate against the cost of buying EVs.

These changes alone would change NZ transport at light speed.

But the government isn't serious. It's mostly talk.

Fully agree. Same with Solar HW and PV. Yet the Govt take the credit, its the early adopters, and others making it happen. Off course there is some form of Govt involvement, but its under the table stuff, its not on the box every night to get us thinking.

Similar with this. We aren't performing with the Paris Accord we committed to. Its relative to this topic and your post, same thing. Yes, UK and NZ differ, but we are increasing emissions.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95158809/climate-change-commissioner-calls-for-nz-to-make-climate-targets-law

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#1832502 27-Jul-2017 20:36

tdgeek:

Fully agree. Same with Solar HW and PV. Yet the Govt take the credit, its the early adopters, and others making it happen. Off course there is some form of Govt involvement, but its under the table stuff, its not on the box every night to get us thinking.

Similar with this. We aren't performing with the Paris Accord we committed to. Its relative to this topic and your post, same thing. Yes, UK and NZ differ, but we are increasing emissions.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95158809/climate-change-commissioner-calls-for-nz-to-make-climate-targets-law

That won't happen again soon. Wright is being replaced by former National Party MP and Cabinet Minister, Simon Upton.

One voice at a time, they are silencing and removing anyone with integrity. I'm sure Upton will do what he thinks is a "good job", but it won't likely involve releasing any reports that give the Nats a hard time.

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#1833122 28-Jul-2017 22:12

"Teslanomics" says real-world data on Tesla EV batteries from users suggests they'll last "forever" or 23 years....whichever comes first, I guess. :-)

GZ can't link to this.....so here is the link. https://youtu.be/Gb_i4ihsJ1w

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