EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2851557 16-Jan-2022 17:10

Batman:

the Volt is not a hybrid in the sense of how you think it works

the petrol engine does not drive the car. it powers an electricity generator to power the electric motor.

That's a "serial hybrid", as opposed to the "(parallel) hybrid" that the Toyota Prius made well known.

The Nissan Note E (aka Nissan Note E-Power) is the same.
Also the BMW i3 I think

In theory, it ought to be more efficient, because you can tune the ICE element to run at a single speed that drives the generator most efficiently, and also afford a relatively huge turbocharger because 'turbo lag' isn't an issue

kingdragonfly

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#2851695 16-Jan-2022 20:26

This is a 7 year old video, but explains the "atkison cycle engine" used in a number of hybrid's

How The Atkinson Cycle Works

Engineering Explained

"How does a hybrid car engine work? The modern Atkinson cycle is used by cars such as the Toyota Prius, Ford C-max and Fusion Hybrids, Lexus CT200h, and Mazda SkyActive engines. The basic difference between the Atkinson cycle and the Otto cycle, is that during the compression stroke, the intake valve is left open for a slight duration, effectively decreasing the compression stroke. This in turn means the expansion ratio is greater than the compression ratio, and results in a greater efficiency of the engine."

Obraik

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#2851702 16-Jan-2022 20:36

Tesla is having a bit of difficulty with their heat pumps in the brutally cold winters (-20C and colder) in some parts of the US and Russia. This is the inside of one failed unit:

It's still a bit early to know more than speculation of what's causing it but I've seen some popular theories that the metal is going from very cold to very hot too quickly and causing thermal failure. Thankfully it's unlikely to be an issue here in New Zealand but it'll be interesting to see how they resolve this, whatever turns out to be the cause.

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Scott3

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#2851798 16-Jan-2022 22:17

Batman:

the Volt is not a hybrid in the sense of how you think it works

the petrol engine does not drive the car. it powers an electricity generator to power the electric motor.

LoL. I am amused that you are are making assumptions about some internet strangers understanding of a particular car's drivetrain.

For reference, I am a Washington accord degree qualified mechanical engineer. And I have a long running interest in plug in vehicle technology (dating back to before the chevy volt was released in the USA). I also currently own a Hybrid car (non plug in), and a pure electric car. I have owned a Plug in hybrid in the past (BMW i3 REX).

What you are describing "The petrol engine does not drive the car. it powers an electricity generator to power the electric motor" When in conjunction with a battery buffer is known as Series hybrid. Can be done without a battery buffer too . Common on ships & trains where it is known as a Diesel-Electric powertrain.

As metioned by Policy Guy, Both the Nissan Note E-power (non plug in hybrid), and BMW i3 REX (plug in hybrid) are examples of Series hybrids.

The Chevy Volt is not. It is a series/parallel hybrid, capable of operating in either mode when the operation conditions are right. Pretty clever really.

1st generation volt, in addion to the well known series hybrid more at lower speeds, at higher cruising speeds can couple the engine directly into the transmission (Planetary ring gear) to contribute torque mechanically.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevy-volt-surprise/

2nd generation volt, has a more flexible transmission, and can have the engine providing mechanical power to the transmission at wide range of speeds, as opposed to the restriction to only higher cruising speeds in the 1st generation volt.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096942_2016-chevrolet-volt-powertrain-how-it-works-in-electric-hybrid-modes

PolicyGuy:

That's a "serial hybrid", as opposed to the "(parallel) hybrid" that the Toyota Prius made well known.

The Nissan Note E (aka Nissan Note E-Power) is the same.
Also the BMW i3 I think

In theory, it ought to be more efficient, because you can tune the ICE element to run at a single speed that drives the generator most efficiently, and also afford a relatively huge turbocharger because 'turbo lag' isn't an issue

Toyota Synergy Drive (Prius, my Lexus RX400h etc.) can operate as either as a series/paraell (including combination's) hybrid. A common example of series operation is in reverse, where it is not possible for the engine to contribute force mechanically in the beneficial direction, so all motion (when battery is low) is created via generating on one motor generator, and powering the other. This varies a bit by model and generation.

On efficiency, on cars like the (1st gen) Outlander PHEV, the engine is connected mechanically via a fixed ratio at open road cruising speeds. In short, there is an efficiency hit by converting to electricity and back, so best to just hook up mechanically under those conditions.

BMW i3 REX was in hybrid mode (purely a series hybrid) did pretty bad fuel economy wise in hybrid mode. Range extender was set up for relatively rare use (surely you would take your other BMW on road trips? perhaps a 5 series?), so other factors seemed to be prioritized in the design (comapct size, light weight etc). As an example, waste heat was simply discarded, rather than utilized to heat the cabin.

But the Nissan Note e-power does well economy wise (comparable to a toyota prius c / aqua) on paper at least, so it seems such a system can work well.

Batman

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#2851821 17-Jan-2022 06:38

i stand corrected!

RobDickinson

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#2852622 18-Jan-2022 08:59

So it looks like some hopelessly floundering Japanese companies are bamboozled by NZ preventing them from dumping gross polluting cars here any more...

https://www.autocar.co.nz/suzuki-assessing-withdrawal-from-nz-over-nonsense-clean-car-standard/

Goodbye Suzuki, shame you chose not to change with the times, but we'll be seeing plenty of new companies to take your place.

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Dingbatt

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#2852682 18-Jan-2022 09:10

Suzuki are already selling what are effectively rebadged Toyota Hybrids in the UK.

Calling a Swift “gross polluting” is a bit of a stretch though.

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#2852686 18-Jan-2022 09:22

From the article:

The firm does not expect any low-price electric vehicles to hit the Kiwi market in the next few years, stating that “there are no other EVs planned for launch that we are aware of, that are anywhere near $48,700 until beyond 2026”.

Except for the MG which is $49,990 on road already.

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kingdragonfly

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#2852687 18-Jan-2022 09:26

Union of Concern Scientists: Time for a U-Turn. Automakers’ History of Intransigence and an Opportunity for Change

Since the 1950s, automobiles have become dramatically safer and cleaner, and they travel much farther on a gallon of gas, all to the benefit of drivers, communities, and the environment.

These improvements have come about thanks to strong, effective public policies. Laws like the US Clean Air Act, the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act, and the Energy Independence and Security Act have been essential to putting cleaner, safer vehicles on the road and protecting generations of Americans.

Unfortunately, mirroring this record of progress is another pattern: the intransigence of an auto industry that consistently fights to block or undercut rules on safety and the environment, even as automakers have managed to meet every challenge laid out for them in US federal policy.

Time for a U-Turn looks at how automakers and their trade groups have fought against the rules and standards that have delivered better cars to the nation. Through exaggerated rhetoric, misinformation, and political influence, automakers have undermined the public interest
...
Scare Tactics
In response to proposals to improve passenger vehicles, automakers have deployed a consistent line of attack to scare policymakers.

"It cannot be done:" Automakers overstate technical challenges to meeting new rules.
"It will cost too much:" They claim that complying with new standards will cost far more than federal agencies estimate.
"It will destroy the industry and kill jobs:" They cast every new requirement as a potential apocalypse for automakers, leading to mass layoffs and closed factories.
"Consumers do not want this:" Their industry groups suggest that automakers must choose whether to produce vehicles that customers want or vehicles the new rules would mandate.
"The science is not clear:" On issues like air pollution, climate change, and the effectiveness of seat belts, auto companies and trade groups attack the science, inflate uncertainty, and deny or question the facts.
"The market will solve it:" Whatever the issue, automakers claim that voluntary, self-enforcement is sufficient.

Ge0rge

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#2852688 18-Jan-2022 09:26

Pedantic, but the quote could technically be correct if you argued that the MG had already been launched.

It certainly would be a shame to see the Jimney go, it's a great little vehicle and, as yet, I haven't seen an ev replacement to fill it's spot.

RobDickinson

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#2852692 18-Jan-2022 09:29

Dingbatt:

Calling a Swift “gross polluting” is a bit of a stretch though.

It isnt, and to be fair right now their fleet must have an OK average. but they know our plans for 2025 and they know their plans for 2025, which are basically sell the same old cars they have now.

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SaltyNZ

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#2852695 18-Jan-2022 09:31

Ge0rge:

Pedantic, but the quote could technically be correct if you argued that the MG had already been launched.

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antonknee

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#2852697 18-Jan-2022 09:39

So Suzuki are complaining that the legislation will do exactly what it is was intended to do? Make it more expensive to sell higher emitting vehicles?

RobDickinson

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#2852701 18-Jan-2022 09:47

Yes.

This harms them because they have no plans to sell cleaner vehicles here...

KiwiME

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#2852733 18-Jan-2022 10:49

Working with legislators is a far better look than making idle threats and Suzuki should know better. Our market is perfect for their economical yet slightly technologically-dated cars.

But, if the US doesn't get its act together soon what minimal global efforts are being made elsewhere to reduce carbon emissions will be wasted anyway. Their population seems to be in LaLa land regarding an understanding and acceptance of what's happening.

It's just fortunate IMO that they are seeing the immediate effects of climate change with their continuing freezing weather.

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