EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2853319 19-Jan-2022 11:50

alasta:

People really need to think carefully about their situation and personality type when choosing to purchase a car made by a tech company, versus one made by a traditional auto maker.

Tech companies design radical products and do so on a best effort basis, with the assumption that they can issue an 'update' to fix their mistakes. Mainstream manufacturers, in contrast, apply the kaizen methodology which has been highly successful among Japanese car manufacturers for many decades but is ostensibly too conservative for computer geeks who want the latest gadgets.

I know which I prefer, but it's good that the market is catering towards different types of buyers.

Oh yeah, a mainstream company such as say, GM, would never be in a situation where they had a factory issue that resulted in missing brake pads

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Batman

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#2853371 19-Jan-2022 11:57

alasta:

People really need to think carefully about their situation and personality type when choosing to purchase a car made by a tech company, versus one made by a traditional auto maker.

Tech companies design radical products and do so on a best effort basis, with the assumption that they can issue an 'update' to fix their mistakes. Mainstream manufacturers, in contrast, apply the kaizen methodology which has been highly successful among Japanese car manufacturers for many decades but is ostensibly too conservative for computer geeks who want the latest gadgets.

I know which I prefer, but it's good that the market is catering towards different types of buyers.

the other things to look at is

- does Tesla pass safety tests? yes

- does it break down? no more than other cars, probably less than other EVs (you see reports that they fail to charge! need reboot!)

- does the brakes work? better than my nissan leaf!

but when you talk about tech company i know what you mean. there are reasons why i reneged on my Model 3 order. it doesn't have a display cluster or a HUD. it doesn't have buttons. i don't want to use a giant ipad to control the car. also CEO refusing to use Lidar but that's for the future he might change his mind. so far other car makers are beginning to use Lidar for self drive but nobody has made a self drive car yet. also legislation need to be changed for self drive cars, as to which party is responsible for the driving when a car is self driving.

but i also need a wagon not a sedan, i think that's the main reason, family of 5 + dog. the end of life nissan leaf suits us better at this point in time.

RobDickinson

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#2853372 19-Jan-2022 11:58

Obraik:

Oh yeah, a mainstream company such as say, GM, would never be in a situation where they had a factory issue that resulted in missing brake pads

^ Blame Autopilot...

alasta

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#2853374 19-Jan-2022 11:58

Batman:

i have looked at all the currently available EVs, the only EV I'd buy today is a Tesla model 3. they've been making EVs for more than a decade, while most other EVs are made by ICE manufacturers dabbling in EVs, bar a few. no doubt they will improve but you get the feeling that they are just repurposed ICEs.

That was true of the Kona and Niro which are combustion engine platforms that have been retrofitted with electric powertrains.

The IONIQ5 and EV6 are dedicated electric platforms and, in my view, the most exciting electric vehicles on the market at the moment. Hopefully they will become more affordable over the next few years.

DS248

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#2853375 19-Jan-2022 11:59

Batman:

i have looked at all the currently available EVs, the only EV I'd buy today is a Tesla model 3. they've been making EVs for more than a decade, while most other EVs are made by ICE manufacturers dabbling in EVs, bar a few. no doubt they will improve but you get the feeling that they are just repurposed ICEs.

Wow, talk about sweeping statements!

Batman

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#2853377 19-Jan-2022 12:00

alasta:

Batman:

i have looked at all the currently available EVs, the only EV I'd buy today is a Tesla model 3. they've been making EVs for more than a decade, while most other EVs are made by ICE manufacturers dabbling in EVs, bar a few. no doubt they will improve but you get the feeling that they are just repurposed ICEs.

That was true of the Kona and Niro which are combustion engine platforms that have been retrofitted with electric powertrains.

The IONIQ5 and EV6 are dedicated electric platforms and, in my view, the most exciting electric vehicles on the market at the moment. Hopefully they will become more affordable over the next few years.

true that. but i don't think we can buy them at the moment!

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KiwiME

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#2853414 19-Jan-2022 12:45

alasta:

Batman:

... but you get the feeling that they are just repurposed ICEs.

That was true of the Kona and Niro which are combustion engine platforms that have been retrofitted with electric powertrains.

The IONIQ5 and EV6 are dedicated electric platforms and, in my view, the most exciting electric vehicles on the market at the moment. Hopefully they will become more affordable over the next few years.

I own a Kona and as a retired mechanical engineer am very interested in how EV designs are evolving. The only obvious area that the Kona shows its ICE heritage is the confined rear seat foot room under the front seats. Other EVs have a dip in the battery housing or other means to avoid this compromise or perhaps oversight. Bjorn Nyland raised the issue in his review about 3.5 years ago and it's the first thing I check on any new EV I'm inspecting. There's nothing else I can see that is compromised and even the lack of an integrated frunk is a matter of Hyundai's choice not to offer that than available space. Accessibility to major components is excellent.

The EV-specific engineering design of the Kona is very good in detail and components are of the highest quality, as you'd expect for an Asian manufacturer. The EV architecture is conventional, very nearly identical to a Leaf or Bolt. Certainly the Ioniq 5 and kin look awesome and I can see clearly the evolution in many areas past their legacy models. Breaking up the coolant into two systems to separate that going through the battery is one, the integration of motor and gear train is another.

For the Model 3 I have to rely on Sandy Munro's teardown videos although I generally ignore his daft opinions. Weber Auto is another excellent source. Yes, it's a ground-up EV and they are definitely thinking outside of the box in many aspects with the body structural castings and lack of switchgear. But there are areas that I wonder about - the glued-together slabs making up the battery pack in particular. Thermally-excellent but a dog's breakfast of elegant design. Tesla's advantage over legacy automakers in my opinion is more about their open engineering management structure and how that will allow them to evolve cars faster than anyone else. While I wait for a product I'd buy, I'll stick to the shares.

alasta

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#2853430 19-Jan-2022 13:15

I have to admit that the Kona EV is very tempting for me but unfortunately it's a bit smaller than my current CX-5 and I don't have access to power in my apartment basement car park. I'm watching this space with interest though.

RobDickinson

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#2853434 19-Jan-2022 13:19

Hyundai had to compromise the kona ev's rear suspension plus the battery box hangs quite low beneath the car

I thought it was a decent car all round but a bit wallow round corners and struggled for grip given the torque it has

KiwiME

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#2853475 19-Jan-2022 14:15

RobDickinson:

Hyundai had to compromise the kona ev's rear suspension plus the battery box hangs quite low beneath the car.

Just noting the Kona EV ground clearance is 160 mm, Model 3 140.

The rear suspension is a multilink, I can't find any info as to how it's compromised but I've also heard this rumour. I think the Kona was supposed to have a torsion beam and the EV had to use the multilink because the trailing arms wouldn't clear. Pretty sure the ICE is also multilink.

RobDickinson:
I thought it was a decent car all round but a bit wallow round corners and struggled for grip given the torque it has.

I think the car handles very well on twisty roads and I came from a Swift Sport. It only takes a few days of ownership for ICE drivers to get used to the instant torque and be a bit more gentle applying the accelerator. I rarely spin the tyres now I have the original Nexens.

There is an advantage to spending a lot more time with a car so that one's preconceived ideas don't influence opinion.

surfisup1000

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#2853479 19-Jan-2022 14:37

Our friend put her EV into 'dog mode' (keeps AC running while car parked) for her dog. Returned to the car, got absolutely abused by member of public, who also took photos of her car and posted them all over facebook and accusing her of animal abuse.

She tried to explain but the person didn't want to know. Thankfully facebook removed the abuse though.

It could an issue, many people don't know about this feature of some EVs.

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#2853483 19-Jan-2022 14:46

surfisup1000:

many people don't know about this feature of some EVs.

Most people don't understand EVs at all. There was a Reddit thread yesterday about predictions of $3/L petrol full of people whining about how they were going to be financially ruined by petrol prices but couldn't possibly buy an EV because once a year they drive to Hamilton and also EVs sound like a hair dryer and are less exciting than filling out tax returns.

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dacraka

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#2853534 19-Jan-2022 14:56

surfisup1000:

Our friend put her EV into 'dog mode' (keeps AC running while car parked) for her dog. Returned to the car, got absolutely abused by member of public, who also took photos of her car and posted them all over facebook and accusing her of animal abuse.

She tried to explain but the person didn't want to know. Thankfully facebook removed the abuse though.

It could an issue, many people don't know about this feature of some EVs.

The screen inside tells whoever is looking in, that the dog's driver will be back soon and the A/C is set to a comfortable [21.5 C]. Wonder if they chose to not believe it, or something or just wanted attention on social media.

RobDickinson

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#2853540 19-Jan-2022 15:06

KiwiME:

I think the car handles very well on twisty roads and I came from a Swift Sport. It only takes a few days of ownership for ICE drivers to get used to the instant torque and be a bit more gentle applying the accelerator. I rarely spin the tyres now I have the original Nexens.

There is an advantage to spending a lot more time with a car so that one's preconceived ideas don't influence opinion.

I was coming from an ev and I'm an experienced driver, the traction control, traction and torque steer is sub optimal.

hm does seem it gets the same multilink as the petrol, think Im confusing that with the ioniq.

Still quite motion sickness inducing, or we found it to be at least.

surfisup1000

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#2853550 19-Jan-2022 15:24

dacraka:

The screen inside tells whoever is looking in

I think when people are so intently focused on the dog they may well be unware of the display. Even did not listen to her explanation. This is not a tesla, not sure what the screen says .

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