EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2914722 16-May-2022 20:31

GV27:
$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

It's still a fair bit but for most people 70km would be enough for general daily use. Especially if you are a two car house you can use the leaf as your main car for all running about. For those with lower incomes the savings on petrol could make a big difference to their daily lives.

The other hope tmwith the 16 blade battery is EVs enhanced should start to see lots of old batteries coming out to replace with 16 blades. This should reduce the price of that stock meaning somewhere down the line upgrading to a better 24kw or a 30kw could be an option to reinvigorate the car.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2914732 16-May-2022 20:54

tripper1000:

Environmentalism is a luxury that poor people can not afford. Temporary subsidies are at best a temporary solution.

How does giving low income households the ability to get into an EV become a temporary solution? Once they have the EV, their transport costs are dramatically reduced giving them more budget for other living expenses.

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gzt

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#2914754 16-May-2022 21:44

Obraik: Once they have the EV, their transport costs are dramatically reduced giving them more budget for other living expenses.

Not necessarily. It depends on the terms of the lease. Hypothetically, even if the terms result in exact capital and expense equivalence for the household there are still other benefits to the arrangement. Reliability and cost predictability of lease for example vs unpredictability of expenses with ownership and maintenance. Improved family safety is another benefit. The overall family stress reduction with use of a modern reliable vehicle is also significant.

kingdragonfly

11196 posts

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#2914772 16-May-2022 22:20

According to this, hybrids are in the mix; not just EV's. I know a lot of people look down their noses at the Prius as dull, but they have proved to be unusually reliable.

Driven.co.nz: Climate change plan: What it means for Kiwi motorists
...
It also includes a proposal to ban or effectively ban the importing of polluting cars. By next year, the Government plans to set a maximum CO2 emissions level for new cars. The limit would either ban the import of those cars or force people importing the vehicles to pay a heavy penalty for the privilege. The Government wants it in place by next year.
...
The Government will allocate $568 million from the "Climate Emergency Response Fund" or CERF to help low-income New Zealanders buy EVs or hybrids. People on low incomes will be able to trade in their polluting vehicles and receive money to upgrade to an EV or hybrid.
...

NZ Herald: Climate change plan: High-emitting vehicles to be banned, electric vehicle scheme under $4.5 billion plan

Over a third of cars on the road will be electric or hybrid - and high-emitting vehicles will be banned - under a significant plan unveiled by the Government.

The $4.5 billion in funding announced today will help reduce global warming and avoid the catastrophic impacts of climate change.

It also includes half a billion dollars to help low-income families shift to electric and hybrid vehicles – part of the Government's commitment to ensuring climate action does not further entrench inequality.
...

mattwnz

20162 posts

Uber Geek

#2914787 17-May-2022 00:21

GV27:

$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

If you compare it to the price of an e-bike, and the range that does, it doesn't seem too bad.

mattwnz

20162 posts

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#2914788 17-May-2022 00:23

HarmLessSolutions:

GV27:

$5K is a lot to pay for a car that can only go 70km. You'd basically need a second car to make that work as you state - so you're not realistically going to be cashing in a clunker unless you've already got two cars now.

Hopefully battery swaps pick up as the EVs Enhanced and other options come onto the market and this becomes a more affordable upgrade path.

70km is more than enough to get around the neighbourhood or pick up the shopping so long as you're not planning on traversing Auckland in your daily routine. I would suggest that many households in lower socioeconomic areas don't lack a few junkers and if an EV purchase results in one of those going to scrap then the govt's scheme will achieve its aim.

The problem is that that distance is only going to decrease. So what starts off fine, may later become a problem. Say you have to travel 30km each way, initially it maybe fine, but then you are in trouble, and 30km one way and then back between towns to do a few jobs is pretty normal in NZ.

Jase2985

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#2914797 17-May-2022 05:50

remember thats 70km now, what will that be in 10 years? 40km due to degradation? 40km in Auckland is not much

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Batman

Mad Scientist
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#2914806 17-May-2022 07:16

by that time i'd have save more in petrol than the cost of the e-bike

umm i live in Dunedin so maybe won't work for AKL. unless your office has a power socket ...

sen8or

1789 posts

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#2914817 17-May-2022 08:12

elpenguino:

tripper1000:

Environmentalism is a luxury that poor people can not afford. Temporary subsidies are at best a temporary solution.

So what do you suggest to avert impending disaster?

100% tax on luxury cars with the proceeds used to donate EVs to the poor?

Lets not forget the basic fact that all our costs and savings on CO2 emissions still only represents a tiny fraction of global emissions, without the big industrial nations actually doing something about their emissions, its virtue signalling, and expensive virtue signalling at that.

I'm not sayings its not a bad idea to think about ways to reduce emissions, but we (NZ) aren't going to save the planet.....

Senecio

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#2914824 17-May-2022 08:33

sen8or:

Lets not forget the basic fact that all our costs and savings on CO2 emissions still only represents a tiny fraction of global emissions, without the big industrial nations actually doing something about their emissions, its virtue signalling, and expensive virtue signalling at that.

I'm not sayings its not a bad idea to think about ways to reduce emissions, but we (NZ) aren't going to save the planet.....

We may not save the planet on our own, but being small doesn't give us permission to do nothing.

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2914833 17-May-2022 08:50

mattwnz:

HarmLessSolutions:

70km is more than enough to get around the neighbourhood or pick up the shopping so long as you're not planning on traversing Auckland in your daily routine. I would suggest that many households in lower socioeconomic areas don't lack a few junkers and if an EV purchase results in one of those going to scrap then the govt's scheme will achieve its aim.

The problem is that that distance is only going to decrease. So what starts off fine, may later become a problem. Say you have to travel 30km each way, initially it maybe fine, but then you are in trouble, and 30km one way and then back between towns to do a few jobs is pretty normal in NZ.

My earlier post suggested the purchase of an end of battery life EV as a stepping stone opportunity for the new owner by way of changing out the battery to gain range. Presently based on EVs Enhanced pricing calculator an extra $10-14K would result in increasing range to closer to 200km which is more than enough to consider intercity trips. Investing a bit more on their 16 blade system would give a realistic long journey range, and a reduction in battery degradation rate.

The cost of upgrading the battery would be more than offset by fuel savings presently and into the future.

The reality of purchasing a very cheap car has always been a maintenance cost lottery but at least with an EV the cost of battery upgrade is a given and with no big cost risks of ICE or transmission failure to worry about.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#2914835 17-May-2022 08:59

mattwnz:

The problem is that that distance is only going to decrease. So what starts off fine, may later become a problem. Say you have to travel 30km each way, initially it maybe fine, but then you are in trouble, and 30km one way and then back between towns to do a few jobs is pretty normal in NZ.

I am hopeful that there will be funding, eventually, to help replace batteries as well. Whilst it is much less of an issue for a modern EV, it's definitely an issue for Leafs. Ours is basically unusable right now. Might be OK if I lived in the suburbs but there are big hills between me and anything interesting, and it doesn't like them at the moment. I don't expect to get any government assistance to replace my battery when the 16-blade is ready, but I think it does need to be in the mix soon.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

kobiak

1615 posts

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#2914838 17-May-2022 09:17

TBH, it all feels like fighting fire with the wood. great intension but absolutely pointless and meaningless.

I wonder why NZ government does not sign a super deal with few EV manufactures (read China) to supply fleet with 0 import cost or even better to build factory to assemble these cars here. That should have been done 10 yrs ago. + build or allow 3rd party to build charging network and become showcase of pure EV country in near future. But NO, China is a strategic enemy :D

helping others at evgenyk.nz

Obraik

2123 posts

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#2914849 17-May-2022 09:50

gzt:
Not necessarily. It depends on the terms of the lease. Hypothetically, even if the terms result in exact capital and expense equivalence for the household there are still other benefits to the arrangement. Reliability and cost predictability of lease for example vs unpredictability of expenses with ownership and maintenance. Improved family safety is another benefit. The overall family stress reduction with use of a modern reliable vehicle is also significant.

Yes, a lot of this depends on the actual details of the program. We don't even know how much of the car will be funded by the government. But yeah, there's a lot of quality of life improvements to be had for those struggling, and there are plenty of benefits to the country by helping them get out of their old car and into a modern EV.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2914855 17-May-2022 09:56

Obraik:

gzt:
Not necessarily. It depends on the terms of the lease. Hypothetically, even if the terms result in exact capital and expense equivalence for the household there are still other benefits to the arrangement. Reliability and cost predictability of lease for example vs unpredictability of expenses with ownership and maintenance. Improved family safety is another benefit. The overall family stress reduction with use of a modern reliable vehicle is also significant.

Yes, a lot of this depends on the actual details of the program. We don't even know how much of the car will be funded by the government. But yeah, there's a lot of quality of life improvements to be had for those struggling, and there are plenty of benefits to the country by helping them get out of their old car and into a modern EV.

Some details in the interview with Minister Michael Wood on RNZ this morning.

Essentially the program will be limited to households with combined income of about $75K for purchase of an EV to a maximum price of $35K. Further details are still forthcoming.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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