Muppets on the road

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#1009864 20-Mar-2014 13:59

sdav: I find it simple. Car indicating left = turning left (maybe, I will still wait lol). Car not indicating = straight through, turning right or left and have forgotten to indicate. Either way I'm not pulling out in front of a car that doesn't indicate. It's not like cars are required to signal that they are going straight every time they pass a side road.

Fair point. Three+ years of driving heavy vehicles left me with a very cautious indicating habit - failing to briefly signal right as you enter the roundabout leads to a lot more people shooting out in front of you from the first exit, and when you have a gross weight of up to 30 tons cautious indicating habits help a lot. Maybe I'll trial leaving the first step out now that I'm a car driver only!

I still have a hard time seeing why some of you find it so annoying - if I am indicating in this manner, it is only for a very brief moment as I enter the roundabout, merely to signal to the drivers at the first exit that I am heading past their exit. I cannot see how this would hold you up at all if you have to wait for my left signal regardless - my left indicator is coming on at the same point in the roundabout either way...

sdav

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#1009877 20-Mar-2014 14:16

bener:
sdav: I find it simple. Car indicating left = turning left (maybe, I will still wait lol). Car not indicating = straight through, turning right or left and have forgotten to indicate. Either way I'm not pulling out in front of a car that doesn't indicate. It's not like cars are required to signal that they are going straight every time they pass a side road.

Fair point. Three+ years of driving heavy vehicles left me with a very cautious indicating habit - failing to briefly signal right as you enter the roundabout leads to a lot more people shooting out in front of you from the first exit, and when you have a gross weight of up to 30 tons cautious indicating habits help a lot. Maybe I'll trial leaving the first step out now that I'm a car driver only!

I still have a hard time seeing why some of you find it so annoying - if I am indicating in this manner, it is only for a very brief moment as I enter the roundabout, merely to signal to the drivers at the first exit that I am heading past their exit. I cannot see how this would hold you up at all if you have to wait for my left signal regardless - my left indicator is coming on at the same point in the roundabout either way...

I have to say the more I reflect on it the more I find it weird to be annoyed by it lol

jonathan18

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#1009883 20-Mar-2014 14:26

bener: I still have a hard time seeing why some of you find it so annoying - if I am indicating in this manner, it is only for a very brief moment as I enter the roundabout, merely to signal to the drivers at the first exit that I am heading past their exit. I cannot see how this would hold you up at all if you have to wait for my left signal regardless - my left indicator is coming on at the same point in the roundabout either way...

If everyone signals correctly then I (on the opposite side of the roundabout, wanting to go straight) shouldn't be having to wait until I've seen your left signal to indicate you're going straight - I should have been able to rely on your lack of a right indicator to know you're going straight ahead (or you would have been signalling left immediately upon or prior to reaching the roundabout, if making a left turn, but this would also tell me it was safe to go straight).

The problem is that people either don't signal or signal wrongly (eg, this right/left switch!), meaning it's all too risky to take a punt on any driver's intentions, whether they're signalling or not.

Mark

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#1009889 20-Mar-2014 14:32

andrew027: I'm certainly with freitasm on roundabout behaviour. I live in Lower Hutt where roundabouts seem to be the preferred type of intersection, and you could sit at any one of them (but particularly the one at the end of Melling Bridge) and about one in three motorists indicate correctly.

The other thing that bugs me is land splitting motorcyclists [braces self for backlash]. First, let me say that I have no problem with lane splitting as a concept. However I remember reading the rules for lane splitting in the motorcyclist's road code a few years ago and it said*[see note below] that, when lane splitting, the motorcyclist has to be in the left of the two lanes, to the right of the vehicle in that lane, not in the right lane, to the left of the vehicle in that lane. But I would say at least 80% of the motorcyclists I see lane splitting are in the right lane - or crossing the line between the left and right lanes as it suits them. I drive on the left of my lane. That's where the road code tells me I am supposed to be. My vehicle is not supposed to be in the middle of my lane - the road code recommends that my driver's seat should be in the centre of my lane. What this means is that when I'm in the right lane, there is no room for a motorcyclist on my left in my lane, but about twice a week I get dirty looks from motorcyclists who can't pass on my left, occasionally I get a beep of their horn, and once one of them thumped my bonnet as he went past. Why? Because my correct driving is preventing his incorrect driving?

*Note, having said all this, I was just looking in the online version of the road code for motorcyclists to check my facts before posting, and I can't find those rules any more. All I can see it this, which seems designed to discourage lane splitting altogether:

Vehicles, including motorcycles, need a full lane in which to operate safely, they shouldn't share lanes with other vehicles.
As a motorcycle rider, there are things you can do to prevent lane-sharing:
• You should stay in line and move with the rest of the traffic
• When in a line of traffic that has stopped or slowed - don't ride between rows of traffic [...edited...]
• Discourage other drivers from trying to share your lane by moving toward the centre of the lane in a situation where other drivers might try to squeeze by you. These situations include:
◦ heavy bumper-to-bumper traffic [...edited...]

Have the rules regarding lane splitting changed in the last couple of years?

Edit - fixed a BBCode error.

As a motorcyclist I do a fair bit of lane splitting (I ride 200km per day), lane splitting is generally ignored by the police unless the rider is being a moron! That said if someone is splitting they shouldn't be getting antsy with the people in cars who don't move and really shouldn't be touching your car (would you believe even smashing off wing mirrors is not allowed!) ... though being polite and letting the bike through is always nice, not like bikes hold you up :-)
But if you stick to the letter of the rules you are allowed to filter and lane split (different things) .. filtering is moving through the queue when traffic is stationary ... perfectly allowed .. lane splitting is doing the same when traffic is moving, gets a bit murky legally as you are allowed if the bike passes on the right of the vehicle and stays in the same lane (cause that is "overtaking"), if you go in to the next lane and you are on the left of the vehicle there then that is the no-no (it would be undertaking) ... of course staying 100% legal for 15km of lane splitting is nigh on impossible ... but again so long as you are not a knob the police ignore it.

If I didn't lane split I'd probably die of lung cancer in a month (even with the filter mask I wear).

bener

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#1009890 20-Mar-2014 14:34

sdav: I have to say the more I reflect on it the more I find it weird to be annoyed by it lol

Haha fear not, we all have odd things that annoy us!

bener

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#1009891 20-Mar-2014 14:35

jonathan18: If everyone signals correctly then I (on the opposite side of the roundabout, wanting to go straight) shouldn't be having to wait until I've seen your left signal to indicate you're going straight - I should have been able to rely on your lack of a right indicator to know you're going straight ahead (or you would have been signalling left immediately upon or prior to reaching the roundabout, if making a left turn, but this would also tell me it was safe to go straight).

The problem is that people either don't signal or signal wrongly (eg, this right/left switch!), meaning it's all too risky to take a punt on any driver's intentions, whether they're signalling or not.

Yes I agree, as I mentioned in a previous reply, it is definitely a lot more efficient if you didn't have to distinguish between 'no indicator = going straight' and 'no indicator = lazy or ignorant'...

jarledb

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#1009930 20-Mar-2014 15:30

surfisup1000:
Because it is wide angle footage, the actual distances are closer than they look in the footage.

Can't see it, it says the video is private.

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andrew027

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#1009959 20-Mar-2014 15:59

NzBeagle: There's always a way through, and I'm yet to see motorcycles clog up the motorways, but i'm also not hurting anyone by lane splitting, particularly on a rainy day when i'd rather be home dry. I realise I chose to ride, so it's my problem, so I don't generally pass my frustration onto enclosed and dry modes of transport. I also acknowledge that I'm splitting at my own risk. Hopefully this wasn't the "backlash" you were bracing for, just the view of the motorcyclist.

I agree - you're OK lane splitting in my book. I really don't have a problem with it. It's just that I try to drive well, and haven't appreciated some bikers' frustrations at me for keeping left (as I'm supposed to) because there wasn't room for them to split, when the problem is that the person in the left lane is driving too far to the right. Surely if there isn't enough room, you just don't do it?

And the "backlash" thing was harking back to a similar comment I made on a Stuff article a couple of years ago. Motorcyclists really got stuck into me - the general gist of their responses being that it was selfish and dangerous of me to drive correctly if nobody else was, and that they should be able to drive however they like because it's good for me if they do.

I'd be interested in whether you know if there has been some change in recent years - as I said, I did see some info. on lane splitting ("lane sharing"?) in the road code for motorcyclists a while ago, but couldn't find it now...

Sidestep

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#1009971 20-Mar-2014 16:11

jonathan18:
Geektastic:
bakewells5856: if you want to see some really bad driving then maybe you should visit a 3rd world country

I spent 6 weeks in Cambodia last year.

It wasn't THAT much worse to be honest.

Perhaps it's a problem with lumping all "third world" countries together, as if they all share the same driving characteristics? My experience of being on the road in India during two different trips (one in the north; the other in the south) is that it's in another league to here. While I find many drivers bad in NZ, I don't have to frequently consider my mortality whenever I go on the open road! What is relatively rare here - eg treating the lane going the opposite direction as yet another lane for your own use, despite it having a steady flow of traffic going against you - is pretty much bog standard driving in India. Combine such driving "techniques" with many vehicles there lacking rudimentary "safety" features like seatbelts (and those that do often not being used), it's certainly the wild west of driving.

(I recall articles a few weeks back about the many new but cheap cars in India getting really low safety ratings - with the focus on the lowest possible price, even something we now see as standard like airbags are not present in these cars!)

Ha Yes, also spent time on the road in India.
Questioned the lack of seatbelts after a very close call one time and was told Ganesh (sitting on the dashboard) would protect us...
Here I deal with foreign visitors daily. This has improved my defensive driving skills no end - as now I understand how completely out of touch that oncoming driver may be.
Best lately was an American girl who couldn't understand roundabouts but “surrounded herself with white light” and put her foot down whenever she saw one..

jarledb

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#1009980 20-Mar-2014 16:22

Sidestep:
Best lately was an American girl who couldn't understand roundabouts but “surrounded herself with white light” and put her foot down whenever she saw one..

Why am I not surprised? Scary stuff!

NzBeagle

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#1010011 20-Mar-2014 16:38

andrew027: I agree - you're OK lane splitting in my book. I really don't have a problem with it. It's just that I try to drive well, and haven't appreciated some bikers' frustrations at me for keeping left (as I'm supposed to) because there wasn't room for them to split, when the problem is that the person in the left lane is driving too far to the right. Surely if there isn't enough room, you just don't do it?

And the "backlash" thing was harking back to a similar comment I made on a Stuff article a couple of years ago. Motorcyclists really got stuck into me - the general gist of their responses being that it was selfish and dangerous of me to drive correctly if nobody else was, and that they should be able to drive however they like because it's good for me if they do.

I'd be interested in whether you know if there has been some change in recent years - as I said, I did see some info. on lane splitting ("lane sharing"?) in the road code for motorcyclists a while ago, but couldn't find it now...

If there's not enough room, I wait, or look for another way around. Generally, most motorists will move to allow me through, hopefully it's not too disconcerting for them.

With regards to the legality, a colleague who spends more time on the motorway than I called to query with the police, and was told that it is considered as overtaking if you are to the left of the line, and undertaking, the illegal option, if you are to the right of the line. However, unofficially, as someone else mentioned, riding like an idiot will get you in trouble more than the other. I've passed countless marked and unmarked cars without any notice being taken.

sdav

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#1010052 20-Mar-2014 18:03

Re the lane splitting thing - I just wish you would all choose the same lane to split!

blakamin

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#1010126 20-Mar-2014 20:36

freitasm: If you indicate right after the first exist even if you are going to take the second exit (going through) people on the other side will think you are actually going AROUND the roundabout and have to stop until they see you actually indicated wrong and went the other way.

And that's how we spot older Kiwi drivers in Aussie... they're the idiots indicating right and driving straight on.

bener:
sdav: I find it simple. Car indicating left = turning left (maybe, I will still wait lol). Car not indicating = straight through, turning right or left and have forgotten to indicate. Either way I'm not pulling out in front of a car that doesn't indicate. It's not like cars are required to signal that they are going straight every time they pass a side road.

Fair point. Three+ years of driving heavy vehicles left me with a very cautious indicating habit - failing to briefly signal right as you enter the roundabout leads to a lot more people shooting out in front of you from the first exit, and when you have a gross weight of up to 30 tons cautious indicating habits help a lot. Maybe I'll trial leaving the first step out now that I'm a car driver only!

20+ years of truck driving 45+ tons tells me you're doing it wrong and indicating right before going straight is just a way of holding up way more traffic. Truck drivers are supposed to be professional and know the road rules.... the latest road rules.

NzBeagle

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#1010130 20-Mar-2014 20:44

sdav: Re the lane splitting thing - I just wish you would all choose the same lane to split!

Haha. I try to make this the case. But following a rider who isn't smooth or confident, I'd rather pass and let them be. But yes, fair request.

blakamin

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#1010134 20-Mar-2014 20:51

Nearly forgot... I asked a council why they made roundabouts so high that you can't see over them and was told you should only be looking to your right and not straight ahead!

Way to create a traffic jam!

morons.

And don't get me started on people that turn into the wrong lane (turning left then end up in a right lane, etc) or people that stop in a merging lane.

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