Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 13

5833 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1639

Trusted

Subscriber

#2155366 6-Jan-2019 17:19

Geektastic: So I see in this morning's paper that we have another death on the roads overnight.

The government recently announced a significant amount of expenditure to make roads safer.

We can all accept that NZ has many unsafe, poorly designed roads and that sorting that out is a Good Thing.

However, by and large, vehicles do not randomly leave the road and hit poles, fall off bridges, drive into oncoming traffic etc etc. People make them do those things.

So why is the welcome improvement work on road design not being matched with work to improve the skills of the people doing the driving?

It is clearly even more necessary than the road improvement.

Having done my driver training again and a full practical test to get my P Endorsement.......I think the training is pretty good and so is the testing. They are very clear about what they expect and you do it or fail.

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

_____________________________________________________________________

I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2153
Inactive user

#2155529 7-Jan-2019 07:54

Linuxluver:

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

Speed is not the issue... Everyone just keeps going back to speed speed speed speed. I also do 55-60 in some Urban routes when the limit maybe 50, I go with the flow of traffic.
Like you said at the start, Driver training. In Germany they have the Autobahn with no speed limit in some areas, their roads are far safer than ours and have a lower road toll. Weird about this whole speed thing..

Oh thats right, They have intensive driver training and absurd penalties if you act up.

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2287
Inactive user

#2155532 7-Jan-2019 08:10

Here comes the usual “The law is optional; I obey it when I feel like it!” ravings from the self-anointed great drivers. Yawn. If you are going to speed, it’s far more dangerous to speed in urban roads. Kids run into the road; pedestrians don’t always cross the road where they should. There’s a reason why the local councils are actively looking at lowering the speeds in some urban areas. Coil, the 21st century just called you and you missed it.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2155533 7-Jan-2019 08:12

Coil:

Linuxluver:

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

Speed is not the issue... Everyone just keeps going back to speed speed speed speed. I also do 55-60 in some Urban routes when the limit maybe 50, I go with the flow of traffic.
Like you said at the start, Driver training. In Germany they have the Autobahn with no speed limit in some areas, their roads are far safer than ours and have a lower road toll. Weird about this whole speed thing..

Oh thats right, They have intensive driver training and absurd penalties if you act up.

Id like to see instant penalties. Speed camera, deducts $x that night. Get pulled over, bank account deduction that night, if not right then, "EFTPOS card please sir" Break the psychological barrier. Its like buying on a creditcard is easy, no pain for many people. Paying cash now is a pain for many people, make a traffic offence the same as buying and paying for something right now. Give a reverse discount. Same offence within 3 months, add 50%

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2153
Inactive user

#2155538 7-Jan-2019 08:25

dejadeadnz: Here comes the usual “The law is optional; I obey it when I feel like it!” ravings from the self-anointed great drivers. Yawn. If you are going to speed, it’s far more dangerous to speed in urban roads. Kids run into the road; pedestrians don’t always cross the road where they should. There’s a reason why the local councils are actively looking at lowering the speeds in some urban areas. Coil, the 21st century just called you and you missed it.

Here comes the usual self proclaimed angel. As a road user I understand this and the risks are judged accordingly, At 2AM on Saturday driving through an urban route I followed a Police vehicle doing 60 in a 50 for 3KM, was a wide road without anyone else on it with a flush and dual bike lanes and a huge footpath. Big difference between that and doing 60 down a narrow residential street with no center line and parked cars either side at 4PM near a public school. I know I put a bee in your bonnet before, no need to let everyone know about it :).

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2153
Inactive user

#2155540 7-Jan-2019 08:26

tdgeek:

Coil:

Linuxluver:

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

Speed is not the issue... Everyone just keeps going back to speed speed speed speed. I also do 55-60 in some Urban routes when the limit maybe 50, I go with the flow of traffic.
Like you said at the start, Driver training. In Germany they have the Autobahn with no speed limit in some areas, their roads are far safer than ours and have a lower road toll. Weird about this whole speed thing..

Oh thats right, They have intensive driver training and absurd penalties if you act up.

Id like to see instant penalties. Speed camera, deducts $x that night. Get pulled over, bank account deduction that night, if not right then, "EFTPOS card please sir" Break the psychological barrier. Its like buying on a creditcard is easy, no pain for many people. Paying cash now is a pain for many people, make a traffic offence the same as buying and paying for something right now. Give a reverse discount. Same offence within 3 months, add 50%

I think the fine in relation to income/net worth is the best route. I know a few guys with cars worth more than most people here's existence and they are more than happy to spend $3000 on fines in the waterview tunnel each way for a photo/video shoot.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2155542 7-Jan-2019 08:34

Coil:

I think the fine in relation to income/net worth is the best route. I know a few guys with cars worth more than most people here's existence and they are more than happy to spend $3000 on fines in the waterview tunnel each way for a photo/video shoot.

Thats an option.

Plus, if you get pulled up for speeding, and no speeding tickets in last 5 years, its a warning. No tickets in last 3 years, it's 50% off the fine, all subject to low number speeds.

These ideas may seem radical, but they are far less radical that what some are doing on the roads, and gives common sense to those that offend infrequently, they are not the problem

Geektastic

18009 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 8465

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2155552 7-Jan-2019 09:12

tdgeek:
Coil:

Linuxluver:

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

Speed is not the issue... Everyone just keeps going back to speed speed speed speed. I also do 55-60 in some Urban routes when the limit maybe 50, I go with the flow of traffic.
Like you said at the start, Driver training. In Germany they have the Autobahn with no speed limit in some areas, their roads are far safer than ours and have a lower road toll. Weird about this whole speed thing..

Oh thats right, They have intensive driver training and absurd penalties if you act up.

Id like to see instant penalties. Speed camera, deducts $x that night. Get pulled over, bank account deduction that night, if not right then, "EFTPOS card please sir" Break the psychological barrier. Its like buying on a creditcard is easy, no pain for many people. Paying cash now is a pain for many people, make a traffic offence the same as buying and paying for something right now. Give a reverse discount. Same offence within 3 months, add 50%

Several European countries, including France, have instant fines.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2155602 7-Jan-2019 09:45

With the driving we experienced while travelling of christmas it is obvious that NZ has a serious problem on our roads and it is not tourists. Training will not help as ALL licensed drivers were trained enough to pass the written test and to pass the driving test thus knowing and obeying the road rules. There is a terible attitude on our roads that wont be altered by training. No matter what courses the recidivist bad driver and offender does it will not change that, we need to have much tougher sanctions for the recidivist offenders that the courts must impose such as permanent driving bans, imprisonment for repeat offenders, seizing and crushing motor vehicles. There also needs to be penalties for those persons that knowingly allow a suspended or banned driver to drive including loss of their motor vehicle and imprisonment if the banned driver has an injury causing or fatal accident.

We need considerably more speeding cameras, redlight cameras and maybe passing lane and road works cameras.

For those drivers that have the attitude that fines are just added to the tab and they continue their same bad driving there should be a regime where if fines are not paid in say 28 days or a payment regime is not set up and adhered to the vehicle is impounded until paid. If the payments are defaulted the vehicle is sold or crushed and their license is suspended. If the driver is caught diving another car during the suspension it is seized and sold or crushed.

We need to get serious about road safety and driving.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2155606 7-Jan-2019 09:55

Coil:

Linuxluver:

But where everyone is let down is enforcement.

There I am, out doing my drivers test.....and you can't go over the spped limit, which is mostly 50kph. Virtually all the OTHER drivers are doing well over 50kph and some are aggressively impatient.

In that environment, any driving student will un-learn recommended behaviours almost by sunset on the day they pass their test.

It's a waste to have police everywhere......so I'm thinking the only way out of this is to geo-lock the maximum speed any car can do. If people won't stay within the speed limit by themselves.....they'll have to have imposed by other means.

All the money spent on driver training is greatly devalued by allowing - and SUPPORTING - other drivers' to ignore the speed limits.

Speed is not the issue... Everyone just keeps going back to speed speed speed speed. I also do 55-60 in some Urban routes when the limit maybe 50, I go with the flow of traffic.
Like you said at the start, Driver training. In Germany they have the Autobahn with no speed limit in some areas, their roads are far safer than ours and have a lower road toll. Weird about this whole speed thing..

Oh thats right, They have intensive driver training and absurd penalties if you act up.

Speed may not start an accident (incident, they are seldom accidents) but it makes stopping the incident a hell of a lot harder and when the impact happens the damage to humans is considerably higher. I met Greg Murphy at a function (wifes work) and I asked him if he sped on the public roads his answer has hell no, he said he could more or less control a car at high speed but 99% of drivers on the road cannot. He said he drives at or below the posted maximum speed.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2155609 7-Jan-2019 09:59

Agree fully. Repeat offenders, they pay the fine now by EFTPOS. Can't? Vehicle is clamped and then towed, incurring storage fees. 14 days if not paid, its auctioned. Very repeat offenders, the vehicle is impounded for 30 days. 3rd strike is impounded and auctioned each time thereafter

Prison needs to occur at some threshold, none of this play Fortnite while on home detention crap

HP

Shop now for HP laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2155622 7-Jan-2019 10:26

I believe that the fixed speed limit actually decreases road safety. In the absence of a speed limit, people have to judge for themselves what is safe and what is not. When a speed limit is set, people don't think about whether this is safe or not, they just drive at that speed. I believe that is the cause of the Montana Speed Limit Paradox where accidents decreased when speed limits were removed, and increased when they were reinstated.

The NZTA is locked into the same mindset: they put up signs saying "Reduce your speed to meet the conditions" but NOT "Increase your speed when conditions are good". The inherent assumption (and implied message) is that it's normal for people to drive at the speed limit.

The speed of a vehicle is only one factor affecting the safety of a vehicle at a particular point in time, but it is rigidly enforced. Because it is a very convenient and easy thing to detect, it has become the focus of enforcement activity. There's essentially no enforcement of vehicle following distances, for example, despite tailgating being a major cause of accidents. There's no law at all, let alone enforcement, around fatigue and sleep for car drivers, despite this being a major cause of accidents.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2155634 7-Jan-2019 10:38

Americans are a very polite people, on the roads we are not. Over there, on an interstate or highway, everyone drives at the same speed. No touching white lines, NOT EVER. Its way different here. The open road is a race, to save 10 minutes over a 2 hour drive. Tailgate in town as you are in a rush. I can see how the speed paradox happened there as they drive safe anyway, so you could rely on common sense. \

In NZ? Not worth answering!

Your post is very sound but God Zone is the weak link unfortunately

MikeB4

MikeB4
18775 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12766

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2155635 7-Jan-2019 10:39

frankv:

I believe that the fixed speed limit actually decreases road safety. In the absence of a speed limit, people have to judge for themselves what is safe and what is not. When a speed limit is set, people don't think about whether this is safe or not, they just drive at that speed. I believe that is the cause of the Montana Speed Limit Paradox where accidents decreased when speed limits were removed, and increased when they were reinstated.

The NZTA is locked into the same mindset: they put up signs saying "Reduce your speed to meet the conditions" but NOT "Increase your speed when conditions are good". The inherent assumption (and implied message) is that it's normal for people to drive at the speed limit.

The speed of a vehicle is only one factor affecting the safety of a vehicle at a particular point in time, but it is rigidly enforced. Because it is a very convenient and easy thing to detect, it has become the focus of enforcement activity. There's essentially no enforcement of vehicle following distances, for example, despite tailgating being a major cause of accidents. There's no law at all, let alone enforcement, around fatigue and sleep for car drivers, despite this being a major cause of accidents.

With the NZ attitude to driving and zero respect for other road users this would create absolute carnage. NZ drivers would see this as an open license to do as they pleased and bugger everyone else. I still cannot understand folks blindness to the FACT, the greater the speed the greater the mess. As I said earlier the speed may not always cause an incident but it makes avoiding it a whole lot harder and when the incident occurs the carnage is greater. It is not a hard concept to understand.

Our roads are barely up to managing 80kph safely let alone 100kph. Example we drove fraom Masterton to Castlepoint last week this a narrow road with one lane bridges, corners with sideroads and farm entrances hidden and a very uneven road surface, the post legal maximum is 100kph. The speed limit on this road should be 80kph or less.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

NzBeagle

971 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 128

Trusted

#2155646 7-Jan-2019 10:48

MikeB4:

Our roads are barely up to managing 80kph safely let alone 100kph. Example we drove fraom Masterton to Castlepoint last week this a narrow road with one lane bridges, corners with sideroads and farm entrances hidden and a very uneven road surface, the post legal maximum is 100kph. The speed limit on this road should be 80kph or less.

Calling out this point specifically, I've seen this in the very few places I've driven overseas, where the speed limit is lower than I'd been used to in NZ, but you can appreciate it for the roads, and generally it allowed better sightseeing. I believe we should see more 80 (or less) areas in this country, but then actually have this enforced. There's probably many more examples than just the one you mention, but enforcement may make it more dangerous for the few that would adhere to it if not enforced, eg the northwestern motorway in Auckland, where it is 80, but not enforced.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 13