EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2945669 23-Jul-2022 19:33

HarmLessSolutions:

SaltyNZ:

I would think if you wanted to realistically pit an ICE and an EV head to head, the EV would need swappable battery packs. Pull into the pits, push one pack in to slide the old one out, or some such.

They're talking 30 minute races with no battery swap or charging (apart from regen). Shouldn't be too difficult to spec an EV to do that, in very fast lap times.

Ah, that makes sense then.

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#2945681 23-Jul-2022 20:54

HarmLessSolutions:

SaltyNZ:

I would think if you wanted to realistically pit an ICE and an EV head to head, the EV would need swappable battery packs. Pull into the pits, push one pack in to slide the old one out, or some such.

They're talking 30 minute races with no battery swap or charging (apart from regen). Shouldn't be too difficult to spec an EV to do that, in very fast lap times.

And with EV >1000hp vs ICE = 670hp ... they will be crazy fast for that 30mins!

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#2945686 23-Jul-2022 21:57

driller2000:

HarmLessSolutions:

They're talking 30 minute races with no battery swap or charging (apart from regen). Shouldn't be too difficult to spec an EV to do that, in very fast lap times.

And with EV >1000hp vs ICE = 670hp ... they will be crazy fast for that 30mins!

Depending on the track. You only have to look at a lot of races now to see that outright power isn't the only thing that wins races.

I think it's a fair bet that the races and car specs will be such that either an EV or an ICE has the chance of winning. Otherwise theses races will be flop.

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#2945752 24-Jul-2022 06:34

i thought we are doing EVs to clean up the planet

how is building 1-tonne 1000hp EVs to go smash around tarmac for 30 mins helping?

please give me a 670hp 600kg V10 i'd rather watch that

burning rubber and trashing plastic is better on V10s.

save the precious lithium.

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#2945757 24-Jul-2022 07:54

Batman:

how is building 1-tonne 1000hp EVs to go smash around tarmac for 30 mins helping?

Because historically significant development of technology comes from competition like this. Advances in consumer products can have roots in sport or competition (motor sport or otherwise) that preceded them. It's one way of challenging designers to make better products, so will contribute to a goal of more efficient vehicles using smaller, lighter and cheaper battery packs from more readily available materials, as well as highlight new technologies to the wider consumer market so they aren't afraid of them when those same technologies are in their consumer products.

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#2945761 24-Jul-2022 08:56

not sold sorry.

i have been racing (umm amateur lol) electric go karts for nearly a decade and have watched formula e (*YAWN), and F1 has had MGU-H for donkeys years which are completely useless for road cars

i don't think you need to race 1000hp EVs to figure out how to make a better Nissan Leaf. BMW have built i3s since forever and they didn't need to race 1000hp EVs to figure that one out

if they want to race 1000hp EVs for the sake of racing then sure but it ain't cleaning up anything, just making more rubbish!

something relevant could be race 300hp EVs with 60kwh battery cross country and see who goes the farthest

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SaltyNZ

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#2945765 24-Jul-2022 09:16

Batman:

not sold sorry.

i have been racing (umm amateur lol) electric go karts for nearly a decade and have watched formula e (*YAWN), and F1 has had MGU-H for donkeys years which are completely useless for road cars

i don't think you need to race 1000hp EVs to figure out how to make a better Nissan Leaf. BMW have built i3s since forever and they didn't need to race 1000hp EVs to figure that one out

if they want to race 1000hp EVs for the sake of racing then sure but it ain't cleaning up anything, just making more rubbish!

something relevant could be race 300hp EVs with 60kwh battery cross country and see who goes the farthest

You are entitled to your opinion, sure, but the track record (pun intended) is pretty clear. Development of so many critical technologies was spurred by sport where money is no object. Suspensions, brakes, materials, driver assistance (in particular ABS and traction control), electronic engine control.

Perhaps what will come out of electric racing are further improvements to the weight and efficiency of electric motors, exotic materials for the power electronics, novel battery chemistries or even the vaunted structural batteries - where the propensity to crash a race car will surely help optimise where you can put them to still have a repairable vehicle.

EV motor racing is definitely something we should encourage for the sake of all our (much improved) future cars.

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#2945766 24-Jul-2022 09:27

i wonder what the 300hp 50kwh formula e has achieved in the last 10 years then

but yeah let's see what happens at Nascar

maybe it'll get the Americans sold

HarmLessSolutions

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#2945815 24-Jul-2022 09:43

Batman:

i wonder what the 300hp 50kwh formula e has achieved in the last 10 years then

but yeah let's see what happens at Nascar

maybe it'll get the Americans sold

Explained here for you

ETA: The point he makes regarding the regen advantage in having drive to the front wheels was something I'd never considered. Essentially most of a vehicles stopping power comes from the front wheel/s so if a car has drive to the front wheels then that braking can be captured by way of regenerative braking to a far greater degree than for a RWD car. An advantage for not only 4WD cars but also FWD such as a Leaf or Polestar2. The split mentioned in the video was 600kw of regen vs. 250kW for a RWD car.

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#2945817 24-Jul-2022 09:56

Perfect answer to the rhetorical Q

I couldn't have said it better

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#2945837 24-Jul-2022 10:44

HarmLessSolutions: An advantage for not only 4WD cars but also FWD such as a Leaf or Polestar 2

Yet the RWD Tesla Model 3 is one of the most effective cars around-. Beating those two by a country mile.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2945839 24-Jul-2022 10:57

jarledb:
HarmLessSolutions: An advantage for not only 4WD cars but also FWD such as a Leaf or Polestar 2

Yet the RWD Tesla Model 3 is one of the most effective cars around-. Beating those two by a country mile.

FWD is only one factor that influences energy economy, and my point was it was one aspect I hadn't considered. There are many other factors including regenerative braking efficiency, weight, battery chemistry, aerodynamics and rolling resistence and the combined effect of these is where the Tesla M3 would appear to dominate.

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#2945853 24-Jul-2022 11:44

Sure. But look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

HarmLessSolutions

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#2945854 24-Jul-2022 11:51

jarledb: Sure. It look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

The AWD has a larger/heavier battery (75kWh vs. 57.5kWh/1919kg vs. 1835kg) so comparision has more going on than just whether the front wheels are driven. Like I said, plenty of contributing factors.

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#2945950 24-Jul-2022 16:05

jarledb: Sure. But look at the list and you will see that the RWD Model 3 is more effective then the AWD version of the same car.

The big question is how does a RWD compare to a FWD? Then you're doing a more balance comparison. An AWD is going to be heavier than an equivalent FWD or RWD variant of the same model. More weight to accelerate more energy needed. I'd expect the RWD version of the Model 3 to be more effective/efficient and the AWD version.

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