EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2948109 29-Jul-2022 22:21

Batman:

Technofreak:

I can't get into his videos. Don't like his attitude, hard to put a finger on what it is exactly but I don't rate him at all. Probably the statement quoted above about educating your moron friends kind of sums it up. He is quite condescending and comes across as an opinionated dick IMO.

he's Aussie, it's "normal"

So is John Cadogan, he's opinionated yet I watch quite a bit of his stuff. I don't always agree with him but still find him OK. Take him for what he is, a loud mouth opinionated Aussie.

He takes the piss out of himself as well as other people and is either entertaining or knowledgeable and informative , sometimes all three at once. I like his motto on the cap that's in usually the background, a piss take on MAGA. MALS or Make Australia (said Horstraya) Less Shit.

He is well educated on his subject matter and when explaining technical details he is very good. I don't find him to be condescending like the Electric Viking guy.

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jonathan18

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#2948140 30-Jul-2022 07:23

Technofreak:

I can't get into his videos. Don't like his attitude, hard to put a finger on what it is exactly but I don't rate him at all. Probably the statement quoted above about educating your moron friends kind of sums it up. He is quite condescending and comes across as an opinionated dick IMO.

If you think he was an opinionated dick in that video, you’ll love his latest - it’s a direct response to some of his haters:

sen8or

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#2948740 1-Aug-2022 08:22

everettpsycho: Seems the rebate scheme is a bit more popular than it was anticipated and is losing about 30% more than it's making in fees.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/warnings-fees-on-utes-could-rise-after-clean-car-policy-creates-million-dollar-funding-gap/AOCO6XBUB7DR7FBICEZ22RQJ6Y/

Do you mean that our Govt in all its benevolence got a calculation wrong, gosh, thats something for the record books........

Its good that it shows a strong increase in more efficient vehicles, but I still have to wonder what will happen to demand when they call it a day on the rebate and introduce RUCs

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#2948747 1-Aug-2022 08:44

I’d suggest that it hasn’t been long enough to assess the balance of the fund. Human nature means that purchasers of “polluting” vehicles would have tried to beat the price rise by getting their vehicle before 1 Apr 22. That would cause a lull in the period after the scheme’s implementation. It will only be when the sales normalise that the true balance can be assessed.

It’s funny how the comments only mention farmers and tradies having to pay. No one ever seems to mention the V8 Range Rover buyers. The government has set aside $6B to save the world so the a few $M up or down in the NZTA fund is chicken feed.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

lchiu7

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#2948768 1-Aug-2022 09:38

At the risk of going OT one of my work colleagues just bought a new Kia Sportage diesel (which as an aside is a really nice car. He was explaining to me how RU's work. That seemed like pretty onerous process.

I was aware that trucks and buses have wheel odometers which I presume the operator has to read regularly and pass on the readings to NZTA.

If the Govt decided to implement RUCs for EV's then that process is going to break. They could look at a process where either you buy a cheap ODB2 adapter and grab the mileage directly from the car, sync'ed to some app and pay or if you don't want to do that, go into your local garage where you get a WOF and have them do it for you. From my understanding the mileage in a car is often stored in a few places apart from what you see on the odometer and the ones internally are pretty hard to hack

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wellygary

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#2948769 1-Aug-2022 09:39

everettpsycho: Seems the rebate scheme is a bit more popular than it was anticipated and is losing about 30% more than it's making in fees.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/warnings-fees-on-utes-could-rise-after-clean-car-policy-creates-million-dollar-funding-gap/AOCO6XBUB7DR7FBICEZ22RQJ6Y/

TBH the story if a bit of a beat up,

They only have 3 months of data ( April- June) when both the rebate and fees were both operating, and it is widely known that there was a a huge spike in Ute sales in March to avoid the fee, and then sales slumped in April ( and partially in May)

It won't really be clear whether there is a funding gap until a few more months, but if the gap is 30% over 3 months, and the first month was severely effected by low ute sales, that sounds like its probably not far from balance...

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jonathan18

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#2948775 1-Aug-2022 09:51

lchiu7:

At the risk of going OT one of my work colleagues just bought a new Kia Sportage diesel (which as an aside is a really nice car. He was explaining to me how RU's work. That seemed like pretty onerous process.

At the risk of continuing to go off-topic, I've owned a diesel Mazda 6 wagon for eight years and can't say I've ever found maintaining RUCs an onerous chore. The only weird thing was working through the recent fuel tax cut and how that was managed for diesels, especially given I tend to retain a decent margin so the trickier thing was working out how much I'd expect to use over the period.

I'm moving to a full BEV in a couple of weeks so, with two BEVs, won't need to worry about RUCs until the BEV exemption goes. And, hopefully by then, they'd have sorted out the categorisation; even as it is currently set up, that first category capturing all vehicles up to 3.5T doesn't exactly reflect the difference between a diesel Polo and a small truck!

lchiu7

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#2948832 1-Aug-2022 10:27

jonathan18:

lchiu7:

At the risk of going OT one of my work colleagues just bought a new Kia Sportage diesel (which as an aside is a really nice car. He was explaining to me how RU's work. That seemed like pretty onerous process.

At the risk of continuing to go off-topic, I've owned a diesel Mazda 6 wagon for eight years and can't say I've ever found maintaining RUCs an onerous chore. The only weird thing was working through the recent fuel tax cut and how that was managed for diesels, especially given I tend to retain a decent margin so the trickier thing was working out how much I'd expect to use over the period.

I'm moving to a full BEV in a couple of weeks so, with two BEVs, won't need to worry about RUCs until the BEV exemption goes. And, hopefully by then, they'd have sorted out the categorisation; even as it is currently set up, that first category capturing all vehicles up to 3.5T doesn't exactly reflect the difference between a diesel Polo and a small truck!

Probably the wrong term. Maybe manual was the right term to use since he said he had to work out how much credit to prebuy each period and then tally up st regular intervals. It just needs to be more automated less likely to be bypassed.

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richms

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#2948848 1-Aug-2022 10:43

lchiu7:

Probably the wrong term. Maybe manual was the right term to use since he said he had to work out how much credit to prebuy each period and then tally up st regular intervals. It just needs to be more automated less likely to be bypassed.

There are other options for large trucks which are GPS driven and less work for fleet owners. I expect that will make its way down to cars/SUVs etc given enough time.

The govt do like to make it hard to give them money with having to deal differently with each department and their sub departments. Look at the hassle that is paying a road tolls vs rego etc. Then all departments have their own customer database that you are expected to update everywhere when something changes. They need to sort out that before they make some other way to interact with them to pay them stuff.

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Scott3

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#2948849 1-Aug-2022 10:49

sen8or:

Do you mean that our Govt in all its benevolence got a calculation wrong, gosh, thats something for the record books........

Its good that it shows a strong increase in more efficient vehicles, but I still have to wonder what will happen to demand when they call it a day on the rebate and introduce RUCs

As mentioned by another person, the early months of data are somewhat distorted. The "Ute tax" was widely publicized, and well known for almost a year prior to kicking in.

Much of the messaging was trying to score political points, so focused on vehicles attracting the maximum $5,175 fee. (by for example cherry picking the Hilux workmate 2wd single cab chassis 2.7L petrol auto, despite that vehicle being a poor seller, and the fees on the common diesel hilux double wellside running from $1725 (2wd manual) to $2990 (4wd auto). So some prospective buy buyers would have over estimated the tax.

Regardless plenty of people brought forward their purchase of higher emitting vehicles to avoid the tax.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/127944528/utes-dominate-february-sales-before-feebates-kick-in

From which we would expect a corresponding lull in sales after.

In addition there are some other aspects that are impacting the market:

NZ's top selling ute, the ford ranger is currently undergoing a generation change, from the P375 to the P703. Ford NZ isn't even advertising the old generation on it's website anymore, and the media is full of reviews & first drives of the new generation.
Supply issues continue to impact brands like Toyota. If you want a Hilux SR5 Cruiser, stock is estimated early 2023...

These two should normalize. When the big shipments of the new rangers start to land, I would expect a spike in collection of clean car fees.

On the other hand of the coin, War in Europe, combined with the world emerging from the pandemic (restart of high volume commercial air traffic), combined with a weak NZD, have seen record fuel prices.

Combined with a combination of increasing environmental concern, and a desire not to send money to big oil producing countries has lead to a massive spike in demand for EV's (and hybrids attract a smaller clean car rebate).

With oil prices dropping on global recession fear's, this EV pursing surge will subside, and used EV's will start depreciating again..

Even now it is difficult to predict what will happen with car purchases longer term.

Some brands like toyota NZ are working aggressively to decrease their fleet emissions (within the bounds of what is possible given few plug in models coming from Toyota global). Opting to offer exclusively hybrids on many models, including Corolla hatch, Camry & Highlander. Quite a big deal given these are big sellers to rental car fleets. And they dropped petrol power on utes and low range 4x4 suv's years ago.

On the other hand you have the likes of Ford NZ, introducing a higher consuming v6 diesel in their new ranger (along side the existing 2.0L 4 cylinder), and for the flagship ranger, they have changed from a 4 cylidner diesel rated at 8.2L/100km to a turbocharged 6 cylinder petrol at 11.5L/100km.

On the EV side of the coin, NZ has had a raft of interesting EV model releases announced, which will widen market appeal. Stuff like the Tesla Model Y, LDV e-T60 double cab ute, BYD atto, New shape MG ZS EV, Kia EV6, GWM Ora Good Cat, Ford Mustang Mach-e.

Saw an avert for the Mach-e on TV for the first time last night, and an entire truck load of the BYD atto leaving the port.

Ultimately the scheme will need a shake up ever year or so. At some point economical petrol & non plug in hybrid cars will be simply to common to give rebates to.

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#2948850 1-Aug-2022 10:49

Automated options were part of the discussion paper in the call for public comments on the rewrite of RUC regulations for 2024. As was moving the entire fleet - including petrol - to a RUC model.

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#2948856 1-Aug-2022 10:55

Scott3:

Ultimately the scheme will need a shake up ever year or so. At some point economical petrol & non plug in hybrid cars will be simply to common to give rebates to.

It's a scheme designed to put itself out of a job. By definition once the tide has turned to EVs, the government won't need a thumb on the scale anymore.

Unfortunately COVID & European war have messed that up a bit because otherwise lithium battery prices were on track to make EV sticker price cheaper than ICE by around 2025. But now you've got supply chain snarl-ups pushing materials prices through the roof but at the same time oil prices are extremely volatile.

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wellygary

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#2948859 1-Aug-2022 11:03

jonathan18:

Technofreak:

I can't get into his videos. Don't like his attitude, hard to put a finger on what it is exactly but I don't rate him at all. Probably the statement quoted above about educating your moron friends kind of sums it up. He is quite condescending and comes across as an opinionated dick IMO.

If you think he was an opinionated dick in that video, you’ll love his latest - it’s a direct response to some of his haters:

Shock Horror, Man discovers there are rapid wing nuts on the internet.... :)

Scott3

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#2948862 1-Aug-2022 11:13

jonathan18:

lchiu7:

At the risk of going OT one of my work colleagues just bought a new Kia Sportage diesel (which as an aside is a really nice car. He was explaining to me how RU's work. That seemed like pretty onerous process.

At the risk of continuing to go off-topic, I've owned a diesel Mazda 6 wagon for eight years and can't say I've ever found maintaining RUCs an onerous chore. The only weird thing was working through the recent fuel tax cut and how that was managed for diesels, especially given I tend to retain a decent margin so the trickier thing was working out how much I'd expect to use over the period.

I'm moving to a full BEV in a couple of weeks so, with two BEVs, won't need to worry about RUCs until the BEV exemption goes. And, hopefully by then, they'd have sorted out the categorisation; even as it is currently set up, that first category capturing all vehicles up to 3.5T doesn't exactly reflect the difference between a diesel Polo and a small truck!

I think it is on topic given the NZ EV RUC exemption is set to expire on 31 March 2024, which is well under 2 years away.

One more card stuck to the windscreen, and one more thing to keep track of, but conceptually very simple.

You buy RUC's, nominating any value you like in blocks of 1000km, and get a card like the rego on a petrol car which states the odometer reading you have paid up to. If your odometer exceeds this value you are liable to be fined.

So you go online, or to a agent (like the VTNZ), pick say 10,000km ($760+4.80 online or 7.80 in person transaction fee), pay your money, get the card in the post (or in person), stick it in the windscreen. No further action is needed until you start to approach the value where you have paid for, then you repeat the process.

https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/v2/purchase-ruc

With regards to a Polo paying the same as something right on the 3.5T light vehicle limit, I think the idea is that both those vehicles cause near negligible road damage, so it is fair for them to pay the same, as they are paying for road construction and time based maintenance, rather than for damage caused. Likewise how trailers under 3.5T arn't required to pay RUC's at all.

Notice how small the step up to the next tier is. Under 3.3T is 7.6c/km, where up to 6T is 8c/km (dual rear wheels) or 8.2c/km (single rear wheels) - Non discounted rates.

As has been disused estensivly the issue with putting RUC's on EV's is that petrol tax is an extremely good deal for super efficient petrol cars. Something like yaris hybrid will pay 1/2 - 1/3rd of the road tax of a polo diesel, which is one of the reasons you don't see many small diesel's in NZ.

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#2948924 1-Aug-2022 11:52

Was just watching a Ford ad on TV. Did the usual Ford electrifying, showing the e-Transit van, the Escape PHEV and HEV, the Focus and Puma Mild Hybrids, and most excitingly (from my POV) the Mustang Mach-E (coming soon).

The weasel words at the bottom of the screen have the clean car rebate disclaimer but included the RWD Mach-E in those vehicles qualifying for the rebate. So sub $80K.

The big question is………when?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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