EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2954121 13-Aug-2022 10:05

Linuxluver:

With the price of oil coming down, the NZ$ has gone up about 5% against the USD in the last 2 weeks. It was 62 cents and now it's 65 cents. Nine months ago it was 73 cents. The Euro has declined a bit so is on par with the USD for pretty much the first time ever. There isn't any updates pressure on car prices from the currency side, at least.

The EV6 went up quite a bit in one hit with no apparentlhy correlation with currency movements.

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#2954126 13-Aug-2022 10:58

gzt:
Local dealer said Light is in stock now. $67,990 before rebate with delivery mid Sept. After that the prices go up but he didn't say how much.

Premium for immediate delivery or some extra options there maybe.

Kia NZ web has Niro Plus EV Light $64990+orc.

https://www.kia.co.nz/vehicles/niro-plus/

Should note that the Niro plus is a different car to the Second generation (SG2) Niro being discussed above.

Niro Plus · Movement that inspires

Niro Plus is based on the First generation Niro.

Blurb on the NZ webside for the Niro Plus is:

The new Niro Plus focuses on greater usability with increased passenger comfort and dramatically increased load capacity including an 80mm heightened roofline. Available in Hybrid and 100% EV configurations.

Great that Kia is putting another EV offering into the market. Especially a Sub $70k, 400+ km range EV.

The second gen Niro takes look much better that the Niro plus in my mind. But both the lower price point, and the high roof of the Niro plus will appeal to some buyers. I'm 183cm tall, so tall, but not massive, and there are plenty of car's where my head hits the roof in the backseat (2nd gen prius, tesla model S. or my hair brushes the roof, (EV6). Not a buying criteria for me, as I rarely sit in the back, but it will be for some buyers.

From a quick look at the spec's - seems to be the same 64kWh kona / niro drivetrain we know and love:

150kW FWD
64kWh (Usable I assume)
427kM rated range
Includes type 2- type 2 cable, and domestic three pin socket charge cable (usually a sweet one with temperature monitoring of the pins so it can draw the full 10A)
5.46m turn radius
397 litre boot (quite a bit less than the other Niro's, but still respectable)
155mm ground clearance
No tow rating
Single entry level trim (halogen headlights - projection type, 6 speaker audio, no heated seats)
Oddly ventilated front seats is listed twice. once with yes, once with no. Suggest that that feature would be unusual give the other specs.

$64,990 + $990 ORC - $8650 rebate = $57,330 After rebate.

ORC based on what my local dealer quoted for the EV6. May vary.

Pritty good pricing. Cheapest non china 400km+ range EV on the market.

[edit]

Across Hyundai & Kia, they are now offering 6 distinct pure EV's:

Ioniq
Kona (two battery sizes)
Ioniq 5
Niro Plus
Niro
EV6

And a bunch of plug in hybrids, including the 7 seat Kia Sorento.

Really good to see this. Hopefully the other car brands follow in this track (or at least release one or two really desirable EV's, ideally in diverse configerations. We now have plenty of larger Hatchback's, small SUV's, large 5 seat suv's. Could really do with more 7 seat SUV's, 8 seat van's / mini van's, 12 seat minibuses, station wagons, off road style SUV's, Utes / cab chassis vehicles, Coupes/convertables, tiny cheaper hatchbacks (yaris size), cargo van's....

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#2954179 13-Aug-2022 11:28

lchiu7:

The EV6 went up quite a bit in one hit with no apparentlhy correlation with currency movements.

There was a massive surge in EV related commodity price's.

And a massive surge in demand for EV's in the wake of the 24th Feb Russian invasion of Ukraine, which, when stacked with the world emerging from the pandemic caused a massive spike in fuel prices globally.

Think the model 3 had a price hike a couple of months prior for similar reasons.

Haven't been tracking EV related commodity prices lately, But with fuel prices dropping, I would expect demand for EV's to decrease from their peak a few months back.

Will be interesting to see where EV pricing goes.

On one hand:

Inflation is running at near 7%
Still long wait lists on desirable offerings
Demand is likely to remain solid:
- Recent fuel price spikes are something people would prefer not to be exposed to if they happen again.
- Increasing environmental concern.
- Widening range of EV's on the market mean they are becoming more viable for more buyers.

On the other hand:

The downwards trend of battery prices which stopped in the pandemic due to supply issues, is likely to restart.
Government subsidies of fossil fuels in the wake of the Europe war to help with cost of living costs (i.e. the 25c tax reduction on petrol in NZ) are likely to be phased out.
We are starting to get decent competition in the EV market. Some previously desirable models, need a serious price cut if they want to sell more than a handful, in light of good value offerings. Example models that could do with a price cut: Nissan leaf e+, Mazda MX-30, Ioniq, Kona, EV6 LR RWD. Examples of better value offings given current pricing: niro plus, 2nd gen Niro, BYD atto, MG ZS EV, Lexus UX 300e, Tesla model Y
More attractive offings expected, for example Subaru Solterra (71kW battery, 530km range, 210mm ground clearance AWD, said to arrive at under $80k in 2023)

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#2954405 14-Aug-2022 09:53

The MX-30 needs about a $35K price cut to make up for a battery that size, and the Leaf $15K-$20K to make up for the fact the battery will be rooted after 150,000km. I don't see either as a serious competitor in 2022, especially not at their ridiculous prices.

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#2954406 14-Aug-2022 10:02

It's possible to root the Leaf battery?!😃

Seriously though, agree MX-30 is horribly overpriced, and even the recent price drop across the ditch isn't enough to compensate.

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#2954407 14-Aug-2022 10:10

I really don't think Mazda intended to sell many of those anyway. Mazdas own anti-sales campaign for these was ridiculous.

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#2954415 14-Aug-2022 11:08

https://www.drive.com.au/news/mazda-mx-30-electric-prices-slashed-sold-as-demonstrators-as-buyers-shun-new-model/

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#2954416 14-Aug-2022 11:10

SaltyNZ:

The MX-30 needs about a $35K price cut to make up for a battery that size, and the Leaf $15K-$20K to make up for the fact the battery will be rooted after 150,000km. I don't see either as a serious competitor in 2022, especially not at their ridiculous prices.

MX-30 electric, appears to be set up too compete in the market space of the BMW i3, Honda e, and the mini electric (and to a lesser extent the Lexus UX 300e). Pretty much the design intent of these cars is to excel in city use, and to target selling to multi car households. Obviously a household with an X5 and an i3 is going to pick the X5 to go away on holiday with.

But as you say, the price of the MX-30 doesn't reflect this at all, As you say, needs to be dramatically cheaper. (or at least be a very special offering like the i3 and Honda e).

For $1.7k cheaper, not that it one can order a Niro Electric Water, with over double the range (224km vs 460km), and substantially more power (107kW Vs 150kW), and even beats the turning circle (10.6m vs 11.4m). One might as well pick the car with less restrictions on how it can be used. One would need to be a massive mazda fan or really want the 360 degree camera & 12 speaker auto to pick the Mazda)

For about $4k more, one could get the Lexus UX 300e. 360km (optimistic NEDC) range, 150kW motor, premium brand, Luxury interior (even if the seats aren't up to the standard of the lexus RX), 13 speaker audio, normal rear doors, better turning circule (10.4m).

You do get a free wallbox with the mazda at the moment, which is nice.

With the leaf, I think the criticism about battery life is unfair. Main issue with no cooling on the 40 & 62kWh car's, is that fast charging slows to a crawl on the 2nd or third fast charge of the day, making the car unsuitable for really long trips in a single day. But this does protect the battery from overheat damage.

Flip the fleet data from feb 2022 shows the 2017 40kW Leaf having a median battery health of 88%. Assume linear, and project out to when the car is 20 years old, and the cars will have half their original range. Not perfect, but should last the life of the vehicle.

Buy yes, need to be cheaper if they want people to buy them instead of the likes of the longer ranged Kia Niro, and various options from china.

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#2954426 14-Aug-2022 12:33

After having owned a Mazda for the last eight years - and having really liked most things about the car - I had hoped buying a Mazda EV to replace the current car would have been an option. It's therefore been such a disappointment to see how slow Mazda have been, making Toyota's 'progress' seem relatively speedy: in the nearly 12 years since the Leaf was released, the over-priced and under-spec'd MX-30 is still their one and only option.

Japanese manufacturers generally have been so slow out of the gate; even Nissan, which had the potential of first mover advantage, has sat on its arse for so long - we're still waiting for the wide-scale release of its second EV. Thank god for Korea, with Hyundai/Kia at least having made an effort in this area, providing people with alternatives to high-priced Euro offerings, the tech-heavy Tesla (which won't suit lots of people), or Chinese owned/made brands (which also seems to put off quite a few). I know there's Polestar too, but they're going to remain niche until they have additional models.

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#2954428 14-Aug-2022 12:52

Polestar/Volvo are Chinese owned as well though.

I had hoped that Toyota would come out with a good BEV product, but based on what I read even before the recall and buy-back that is going on with the BZ4X made me go for Tesla instead.

The Japanese producers have really been left behind in the shift to BEVs. While the South-Koreans have stepped up with their BEV offerings and basically taken the role that the Japanese had for ICE cars IMHO.

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jonathan18

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#2954436 14-Aug-2022 13:54

jarledb:

Polestar/Volvo are Chinese owned as well though.

True, but it's amazing how people's association with the original country of origin of such brands can still dominate! The logic seems to be Polestar is owned by Volvo; Volvo come from Sweden; both are therefore Swedish cars.

I'm surprised at how many still aren't aware that MG is not a British company/brand.

I'd comfortably assume that much of the population still believes that JLR is British-owned...

Just this morning my FIL was surprised to hear that NZ Teslas are made in China... I'm sure that affected his sense of the brand's quality (whereas for me, I'm just relieved they're not from Freemont!),

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#2954454 14-Aug-2022 14:59

jonathan18:

After having owned a Mazda for the last eight years - and having really liked most things about the car - I had hoped buying a Mazda EV to replace the current car would have been an option. It's therefore been such a disappointment to see how slow Mazda have been, making Toyota's 'progress' seem relatively speedy: in the nearly 12 years since the Leaf was released, the over-priced and under-spec'd MX-30 is still their one and only option.

Japanese manufacturers generally have been so slow out of the gate; even Nissan, which had the potential of first mover advantage, has sat on its arse for so long - we're still waiting for the wide-scale release of its second EV. Thank god for Korea, with Hyundai/Kia at least having made an effort in this area, providing people with alternatives to high-priced Euro offerings, the tech-heavy Tesla (which won't suit lots of people), or Chinese owned/made brands (which also seems to put off quite a few). I know there's Polestar too, but they're going to remain niche until they have additional models.

My partner has a 2019 Mazda 6 wagon as a work vehicle and while it does look and feel like a nice vehicle, the infotainment is absolute trash. It seems to take a good minute for it to actually boot after starting the car, then it spends an eternity trying to reconnect to remembered bluetooth devices and if it can't, it then switches to the radio at full volume (because decent volume on BT is not the same on the radio, apparently). Navigating around it is a lagfest too. I also don't appreciate that when it does reconnect to bluetooth it triggers the phone to start playing - on iOS this is annoying because it will always play whatever is on Apple Music as that's the default for that OS if something else like Spotify isn't already running. Even if all my music was in Apple Music, I prefer to tell it when to start playing, not the moment it boots.

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jonathan18

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#2954462 14-Aug-2022 15:44

Obraik:

My partner has a 2019 Mazda 6 wagon as a work vehicle and while it does look and feel like a nice vehicle, the infotainment is absolute trash. It seems to take a good minute for it to actually boot after starting the car, then it spends an eternity trying to reconnect to remembered bluetooth devices and if it can't, it then switches to the radio at full volume (because decent volume on BT is not the same on the radio, apparently). Navigating around it is a lagfest too. I also don't appreciate that when it does reconnect to bluetooth it triggers the phone to start playing - on iOS this is annoying because it will always play whatever is on Apple Music as that's the default for that OS if something else like Spotify isn't already running. Even if all my music was in Apple Music, I prefer to tell it when to start playing, not the moment it boots.

Well, I imagine the system on my 2013 Mazda 6 wagon is even worse than the 2019! (I did say I liked most things about it...). Every time my phone connects (and yep, it also takes about a minute) I then have to go through a rigmarole to get my podcast app to play, which involves switching between BT and radio a few times and fiddling with the phone to start the podcast. Works first time every time with the $20 BT FM transmitter in my wife's Leaf. (Well, the reason I need that transmitter is because her Leaf's BT spits the dummy if more than one phone is set to connect, so maybe shouldn't go there...)

Anyway, to justify this as being EV-related, I've heard the 'premium' sound system in the Model Y is supposed to be pretty decent; I'm looking forward to giving it a good trial (my first car stereo with an actual sub) on the way home from Akld on Wed (though, knowing one of my kids, he'll make us listen to audio books the whole way back...).

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#2954464 14-Aug-2022 16:00

jonathan18:

jarledb:

Polestar/Volvo are Chinese owned as well though.

True, but it's amazing how people's association with the original country of origin of such brands can still dominate! The logic seems to be Polestar is owned by Volvo; Volvo come from Sweden; both are therefore Swedish cars.

I'm surprised at how many still aren't aware that MG is not a British company/brand.

I'd comfortably assume that much of the population still believes that JLR is British-owned...

Just this morning my FIL was surprised to hear that NZ Teslas are made in China... I'm sure that affected his sense of the brand's quality (whereas for me, I'm just relieved they're not from Freemont!),

Made in China has gained a bad reputation from the 'Where everyone gets a bargain' selling model. The Chinese are more than capable of manufacturing products to as high a standard as anywhere in the world. They will manufacture to your budget and if you want cheap they are very capable of churning out large quantities of budget price, low quality widgets. They will also engage a high quality production process if that is what the market requires. Joe Bennet's book 'Where Underpants Come From' gives a great insight into this phenomenon.

We import most of the textiles our company sells from China and the quality and third party certifications we are supplied are top notch. Our supplier is US based with manufacturing facilities in China so we are reliant on them to address any QC issues but these are rare. Having visited our supplier's factory in China about 10 years back the sheer size of cities such as Shanghai struck us as a pressure cooker environment for competitiveness on all levels of life. If anyone or any business sees an opportunity to gain advantage over their competition they will try it on as Fonterra found in the Sanlu melamine issue. QC and robust contractual terms are essential.

From this previous experience with Chinese we had no qualms in purchasing our Polestar recently. I wouldn't be so sure about the soon to arrive cheaper Chinese EVs though unless the distributorship and service back-up provided a reliable safety net for any QC 'oversights'.

The comment about China vs. Freemont manufactured Teslas brought to mind this documentary I watched a while back. Food for thought in regard to the pros and cons of the two countries' manufacturing models.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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#2954466 14-Aug-2022 16:15

jonathan18:

Anyway, to justify this as being EV-related, I've heard the 'premium' sound system in the Model Y is supposed to be pretty decent; I'm looking forward to giving it a good trial (my first car stereo with an actual sub) on the way home from Akld on Wed (though, knowing one of my kids, he'll make us listen to audio books the whole way back...).

While the audio in my TM3 is ‘okay’, I do envy that new TMY owners are getting the premium audio in the base model. As I have said previously, I do wish Tesla offered certified aftermarket upgrades. They have proved it’s possible by offering automatic boot opening retrofits in China. I’m perfectly happy with my single motor variant, but the ability to pay for an official audio upgrade would be nice, as would an auto-frunk. I don’t believe they will offer more variety at production time because that just adds complication and cost. Even the rumoured addition of two colours (silver and maroon) to the lineup affects production.

However, the more I read and watch about the LFP battery, the happier I am, and when I made my decision there wasn’t any Y that potentially qualified for the rebate or had an LFP battery. How quickly things can change. I note The Electric Viking, in a recent video was talking about the TMY being fitted with a BYD supplied blade battery pack (LFP). Although he was talking about the pack being only 55kWh in capacity and it being structural.

The other thing he talked about was the addition of manganese in the latest LFP chemistry, which seems like it has the advantages of LFP of lifecycle and resilience, while achieving almost the same energy density as NCA batteries.

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