EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

1 | ... | 572 | 573 | 574 | 575 | 576 | 577 | 578 | 579 | 580 | 581 | 582 | ... | 728

518 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3070182 1-May-2023 21:45

billgates:
Minimum wage workers can barely afford $10k cars. Give people the means to reduce congestion and encourage public transport and ebikes. EV's do not reduce traffic congestion or help anyone earning minimum wage.

There are ways that minimum wage workers can be helped into EVs, but only if more 2nd hand EVs become available, particularly 2nd hand cheaper EVs - we need more MG & BYD & Ora price range cars sold new here. Ten years from now we will still have a tiny pool of 2nd hand EVs if more new EVs are not sold over the next 5 years. There is a big benefit to lower income workers in getting more people to buy new EVs instead of buying new Ford Rangers. Every time I see gas guzzlers advertised, I feel dismayed.

Geektastic

17944 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3070189 1-May-2023 22:00

Batman:
billgates:

EV subsidies = making rich people richer.

an announcement that changes to the scheme will be announced tomorrow

(saw a TV screenshot on FB EV group .... so i don't know anything else. wait till tomorrow i guess?)

An announcement that there will be an announcement?

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3070193 1-May-2023 22:14

Geektastic:

An announcement that there will be an announcement?

your best hope is that tomorrow will not be another announcement of another announcement

exador

95 posts

Master Geek

#3070203 1-May-2023 23:30

Batman:
billgates:

EV subsidies = making rich people richer.

an announcement that changes to the scheme will be announced tomorrow

(saw a TV screenshot on FB EV group .... so i don't know anything else. wait till tomorrow i guess?)

They’re dropping all ICEs from the scheme (e.g. Suzuki Swift). Only hybrids and BEVs will now qualify.

Scott3

3981 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3070205 1-May-2023 23:46

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/major-changes-to-government-s-clean-car-discount-scheme-to-be-announced-newshub-understands.html

"Newshub understands the Government will make a pre-Budget announcement on Tuesday seeking to lower the cap of emissions - discontinuing discounts for low emitting petrol vehicles, meaning only hybrid and electric vehicles will receive the subsidies. "

I don't feel the government should be picking technology winners. Just do emissions brands.

For Zero emissions, it makes no difference if the vehicle is BEV, Hydrogen, or say running on big compressed air tanks....

For low emissions, makes no difference if a brand has produced a super-efficient ICE, or a hybrid powertrain with the same emissions. Don't want to reward people for simply putting a hybrid badge on the car, and some mild hybrid systems have minimal impact on emissions vs the cost (Subaru, Suzuki)

PHEV is a tricky case, as emissions depend on how it is used. Don't want to do like in the UK, where phev's are cheaper due to incentives, and companies buy them, but don't bother to provide any charging...

GV27

5898 posts

Uber Geek

#3070218 2-May-2023 06:47

Not sure about PHEVs but some distinction between commercial and road-car units might have helped here. Supply is still fairly constrained for some EV models and we aren't a huge market so few manufacturers send down their most recent EV releases (HY/Kia and Tesla being notable exceptions). Commercial EVs are slow and a PHEV might be a next-best option for people who can't make a BEV work but need to upgrade at some point.

I'm still industry-adjacent so shouldn't comment too much but in some cases you dealing with huge automotive conglomerates and they have specific rules about what they will and won't send here (ICE and EV), even if there is agreement at a retail level on the ground here about what there might be a market for.

In Leaf news, I will be buying a PDM next week and fitting it to my 40kwh over the next month. 6kw charging here we come!

wellygary

8342 posts

Uber Geek

#3070219 2-May-2023 06:48

New EV rebate cut to $7015 from 1 July, used increased (marginally) by $57 to $3507

https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/environment-and-climate-change/clean-cars

PHEV rebate goes down to around $4K

The fees on emitting vehicles goes up, and “mild hybrids” lose their rebates as well

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3070221 2-May-2023 06:54

Scott3:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/major-changes-to-government-s-clean-car-discount-scheme-to-be-announced-newshub-understands.html

"Newshub understands the Government will make a pre-Budget announcement on Tuesday seeking to lower the cap of emissions - discontinuing discounts for low emitting petrol vehicles, meaning only hybrid and electric vehicles will receive the subsidies. "

this should have been like this from the start

i can't believe you could get a rebate for ICE vehicles! i didn't know that!

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3070222 2-May-2023 06:56

Scott3:

For low emissions, makes no difference if a brand has produced a super-efficient ICE, or a hybrid powertrain with the same emissions. Don't want to reward people for simply putting a hybrid badge on the car, and some mild hybrid systems have minimal impact on emissions vs the cost (Subaru, Suzuki)

PHEV is a tricky case, as emissions depend on how it is used. Don't want to do like in the UK, where phev's are cheaper due to incentives, and companies buy them, but don't bother to provide any charging...

easy. increase fuel tax.

but implement RUC on EV by weight. 3 tonne EVs with enough battery for 5 Nissan Leafs should be fined for existing and fined more for every km driven.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3070223 2-May-2023 07:03

wellygary:

New EV rebate cut to $7015 from 1 July, used increased (marginally) by $57 to $3507

https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/environment-and-climate-change/clean-cars

PHEV rebate goes down to around $4K

The fees on emitting vehicles goes up, and “mild hybrids” lose their rebates as well

interesting .. need pictures to compare before and after 😁

11k rebate for disability EV - how do you classify as disability EV?

Nissan Leaf prices will go up by $57

Scott3

3981 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3070244 2-May-2023 09:17

Batman:

Scott3:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/major-changes-to-government-s-clean-car-discount-scheme-to-be-announced-newshub-understands.html

"Newshub understands the Government will make a pre-Budget announcement on Tuesday seeking to lower the cap of emissions - discontinuing discounts for low emitting petrol vehicles, meaning only hybrid and electric vehicles will receive the subsidies. "

this should have been like this from the start

i can't believe you could get a rebate for ICE vehicles! i didn't know that!

Yip, The vast majority of modern non-hybrid hatchback's qualified for a rebate previously. Along with some quite large hybrid cars (179kW highlander hybrid SUV @6.2L/100km / 142g CO2, got $1304.66). In this light, not really a surprise that the scheme didn't end up self funding. Boom in EV sales (driven both by the rebate, fuel price surge from the Ukraine invasion and new EV models coming onto the market).

Original Scheme was designed to mitigate much of the likely attacks about the policy being regressive (i.e. take from the "poor" buying a $30k hilux workmate, give to the rich buying a $300k Porsche EV). Of course kinda moot, as the poor don't buy new cars, and typically don't buy fresh imports either.... But the scheme was setup so large volumes of used import swift's, aqua's, prius etc could qualify for a rebate, so it would have an impact on those buying cheaper cars too.

New scheme moves the rebate threshold down a lot. Now only cars below 100g C02 qualify.

Yaris hybrid (84g Co2/km WLTP-3 conversion) will still qualify, but the rebate will be peanuts given it is just 16g below the limit.

I think a 2013 aqua is 86g, and a 2017 prius is 85g, so those used imports should still qualify too. (not quite sure if the numbers I am quoting are WLTP-3 conversions, would expect the tiny 3 cylinder yaris hybrid to beat the prius / aqua by some margen on economy.)

Suggest the above is by design. By allowing some high volume Japanese import's to get a token small rebate, it provides a political response to when concerns are raised about the amount of rebates going to "rich" tesla buyers... Actually the car model that has the most number of rebates claimed on it was the toyota aqua, so I reject the premise of that question....

Scott3

3981 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3070248 2-May-2023 09:37

Batman:

interesting .. need pictures to compare before and after 😁

11k rebate for disability EV - how do you classify as disability EV?

Nissan Leaf prices will go up by $57

Definition of Mobility vehicles is broad. A simple swivel seat is enough to qualify.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2022/0052/latest/whole.html#LMS643195

disability vehicle means a light vehicle that is used for the transportation of a person with a disability and is modified to do either or both of the following:

(a)

enable a person in a wheelchair to safely enter and exit the vehicle and enable the person and the wheelchair to be safely restrained while the vehicle is moving:

(b)

provide a person in a wheelchair or of limited mobility with assistance to enter and exit the vehicle through the use of a swivel or swing-out seat

On Nissan leaf's, as with any subsidy, the slopes of the demand and supply curves determine how the benefits of the subsidy are shared. With 1200 leaf's on trademe, I expect a decent chunk of the benefits go to the buyer. Should note that benefits going to the seller is not a bad thing from an economics perspective. Fatter margins would encourage sellers to import more (bid more at auctions in japan, look at other markets like the BYD e6 from Singapore), and promote them more. The goal of a subsidy is to have more of the item sold, so we need both the buyer and sellers to make that work.

wellygary

8342 posts

Uber Geek

#3070249 2-May-2023 10:03

Scott3:

I think a 2013 aqua is 86g, and a 2017 prius is 85g, so those used imports should still qualify too. (not quite sure if the numbers I am quoting are WLTP-3 conversions, would expect the tiny 3 cylinder yaris hybrid to beat the prius / aqua by some margen on economy.)

Suggest the above is by design. By allowing some high volume Japanese import's to get a token small rebate, it provides a political response to when concerns are raised about the amount of rebates going to "rich" tesla buyers... Actually the car model that has the most number of rebates claimed on it was the toyota aqua, so I reject the premise of that question....

The new rebate rates per g/km are here

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/vehicle/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount-rebate-pricing.pdf
A Used Aqua @86g will now receive $1265

Under the former scheme is looks like 86g was a $1458 rebate
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount/eligibility-criteria/

My beef with the changes are that they appear to be lowing the encouragement for these types of vehicles, If these are what the scheme is designed to encourage, why is the encouragement declining.....

evilengineer

466 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3070393 2-May-2023 11:56

wellygary:

The new rebate rates per g/km are here

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/vehicle/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount-rebate-pricing.pdf
A Used Aqua @86g will now receive $1265

Under the former scheme is looks like 86g was a $1458 rebate
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/clean-car-programme/clean-car-discount/eligibility-criteria/

My beef with the changes are that they appear to be lowing the encouragement for these types of vehicles, If these are what the scheme is designed to encourage, why is the encouragement declining.....

I don't really see how they are lowering the encouragement.

Yes, in pure dollar terms the rebate value has gone down but the price differential with the >100g petrol alternatives has gone up because they no longer get a rebate at all.

Scott3

3981 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3070414 2-May-2023 12:55

Batman:

Scott3:

For low emissions, makes no difference if a brand has produced a super-efficient ICE, or a hybrid powertrain with the same emissions. Don't want to reward people for simply putting a hybrid badge on the car, and some mild hybrid systems have minimal impact on emissions vs the cost (Subaru, Suzuki)

PHEV is a tricky case, as emissions depend on how it is used. Don't want to do like in the UK, where phev's are cheaper due to incentives, and companies buy them, but don't bother to provide any charging...

easy. increase fuel tax.

but implement RUC on EV by weight. 3 tonne EVs with enough battery for 5 Nissan Leafs should be fined for existing and fined more for every km driven.

Increasing fuel tax is politically difficult due to concerns it is regressive. People with money can upgrade to an EV, or just pay it, but the family of 6 / 7, living semi rural in a area with no public transport or footpaths, owing a 2004 Previa (11.7L/100km) will get hammered.

RUC's are road user chargers, and weight bands are priced relative to damage done to roads. Because road damage goes up by the 4th power? of axle load, light vehciles do negligable damage vs heavy trucks. Hence why under 3500gvm is all the same band. Next band is 3.5T to 6T GVM, and is only a few extra cents (76c vs 82c non-discounted).

On EV's I don't think weight is the Boogeyman. Other than increased tire wear, so what if a BEV weighs 3000kg. And I imagine a BEV at that weight will be competing against fairly thirsty ICE's (Mercedes sprinter / Dodge Ram 1500 / Nissan Patrol Y62 etc). Every Y62 patrol that gets swapped for say a Rivian R1S, is worth 3 - 4x the emissions savings of swapping a Toyota aqua for a Nissan leaf.

1 | ... | 572 | 573 | 574 | 575 | 576 | 577 | 578 | 579 | 580 | 581 | 582 | ... | 728