Nissan LEAF - General

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#1533813 16-Apr-2016 01:22

Hmm, even at 10.5c/kWh that is ~$80 a month in energy. I generally use ~$20 gas a week as it is so I'm not seeing the cost benefit for me personally but I suppose it is marginally there for larger distance commuters. I just don't think the capital investment for that marginal cost saving makes sense yet. Well, the technology has a ways to go yet I think as I prefer being able to gas up and travel 600km without planning if I want to.

PhantomNVD

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#1533823 16-Apr-2016 02:32

Just seen an ad for a gogreen event http://www.gogreenexpo.co.nz in Akl at Greenland tomorrow with a Leaf advertised as on display by "the largest importer in NZ" auto link cars if anyone wants to go see one?

http://www.autolinkcars.co.nz

richms

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#1533831 16-Apr-2016 04:27

PhantomNVD: Just seen an ad for a gogreen event http://www.gogreenexpo.co.nz in Akl at Greenland tomorrow with a Leaf advertised as on display by "the largest importer in NZ" auto link cars if anyone wants to go see one?

http://www.autolinkcars.co.nz

Hmm, might go check it out, I'm not normally one to go to hippy expos.

Richard rich.ms

dwl

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#1533837 16-Apr-2016 06:51

UHD:
Hmm, even at 10.5c/kWh that is ~$80 a month in energy. I generally use ~$20 gas a week as it is so I'm not seeing the cost benefit for me personally but I suppose it is marginally there for larger distance commuters. I just don't think the capital investment for that marginal cost saving makes sense yet. Well, the technology has a ways to go yet I think as I prefer being able to gas up and travel 600km without planning if I want to.

I think this is an apples and pears comparison for cost. If you are using $20 per week for gas then your km driven is probably fairly low. For $80 of energy at 10.5c/kWh that should be much, much further (but I agree not all at once).

When I discuss running costs with my Leaf (at promotional events) I use my commute example of 68km return each day. I need (on average) 11.3 kWh charge which at my rate of 10.6c/kWh + GST is $1.38. If if use my petrol car with 7.6 l/100km, at $1.85 per litre that is $9.56.

My Leaf averages around 7km/kWh. If I were to spend $80 a month, that is 622 kWh or 4635 km per month. I could do it at 154 km per day, charging overnight each night, maybe needing a small topup during the day, but way, way beyond normal use.

Re going 600km without planning, petrol/diesel best option for now but if you have a second car then electric could still work for you. The technology is definitely here now for many users.

Terciops

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#1533874 16-Apr-2016 09:05

UHD:

Hmm, even at 10.5c/kWh that is ~$80 a month in energy. I generally use ~$20 gas a week as it is so I'm not seeing the cost benefit for me personally but I suppose it is marginally there for larger distance commuters. I just don't think the capital investment for that marginal cost saving makes sense yet. Well, the technology has a ways to go yet I think as I prefer being able to gas up and travel 600km without planning if I want to.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I must have a play with these numbers because something isn't correct here....

Let's say your $20/week in gas = $90 / month. That will buy you ~52L of regular gas. Which at 10km/L (small salon) = 520Kms of driving.

$80 at 10.5c / KWh = 761KWh . Now my Leaf does 7Km / KWh or about 6 kms/KWh on the highway. Let's use 6. That 761 KWh will give me 4570 Kms of driving.

So there is something badly wrong here.

Some REAL figures for you. I use between 80 and 100 KWh / month in the Leaf to drive 600 Kms/month (about the same as you it would seem from your gas costs). That costs a grand total of about $10 a month using your quoted electric costs.

True though, I can only go 150 Kms on a 'tank', but in practice I only usually have to charge every 3rd day, and that is playing very safe. If you think about it another way. The Leaf has a (roughly) 20KWh of usable capacity = 120-150kms. Even if you are at 50% on top up, you usually only go to 80% anyway, so that is a grand total of 6-7KWh of charging - about 2hrs on the mains. Say 70c of electricity at the quoted rate above. Big Deal.

So I have either read this totally wrong, or someone else's figures are very biased.

As an aside I charge my Leaf mainly from Solar PV as an adjunct to the Paladin PV Diverter I developed a year back. If you have an interest in more detail on this - try - www.paladin.nz - EV Charging tab.

The pictures there are of the Beta software - it now has an improved front end :

Hope this helps ..

Ken

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#1533984 16-Apr-2016 15:21

Now that is a cool setup. Also welcome to geekzone.

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RUKI

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#1534727 18-Apr-2016 10:31

Talkiet:

I'd love to know if anyone can make progress on the English conversion of the headunits... I have a Skyline crossover with a similar headunit and it's all Japanese. There is one guy in Auckland charging $1600 for a dodgy software upgrade to convert it to English, but he's literally the only guy in the country that can do it and is charging way too much for a SW upgrade that's not authorised in any case.

I wish the technology would make a break outside the very tightly controlled group of Russians that know how to do this in .eu, Aussie and NZ

Fluent Russian gives me opportunity to access millions of geeks on the other side of the world. Please let me know if you need assistance with translations. Google Translate is hopeless with Russian :-)

Jap to English conversions in New Zealand market are out of scope for me and other Russian Engineers who value the work they do / can do.

Jap to English conversion requires humongous amount of intellectual efforts, hardware investment and hundreds of hours of engineering vs simple swap of the unit to US/UK import.

One of the engineers I've asked about the Leaf (it has not been done yet) told me that for the amount of initial efforts it would require and considering the size of NZ market and what people here are prepared to pay for AV units [in general] - that is not going to happen any time soon if at all.

Leafs are not that popular in Russia (too cold for the battery - 50km range with the heater constantly on) hence no interest to work on that car. The only alternative is USA/UK unit or aftermarket Chinese AV unit not integrated into the car's AV-CAN system.

I've heard that some other popular Nissans are sorted but solution are not cheap and again - no market here. It is easy to check what Japanese imported cars are popular in Russia. You could assume the Jap to Russian translation has been sorted for those. That does not mean automatically that Jap to English translation is/will be readily available. It may not exist at all.

As for Nissan Leaf - simple question to ask: is anyone prepared to pay market price for the USA complete unit which works with no alterations being made to it? If not then you are not prepared to pay for Jap to English conversion which is way more expensive considering initial investment.

From what I've heard - people are not prepared to pay anything over the price of the cheap no-brand AV unit from China.

AV units from wrecked Leafs are in demand in USA due to the working and upgradable GPS and Sat Radio. I have one US unit in near new condition and can order another one. Any takers? Would be surprised if any...

P.S. In case you do not know - I am the only guy in the country who can properly test Prius/Camry/Lexus hybrid batteries. And what? Is anyone prepared to pay in NZ for professional testing/rebuild? People would buy 1 untested module on Trademe and waste their time in an effort to fix it on the cheap. For that reason - the market is elsewhere rather than in New Zealand... I see straight correlation between two..

Talkiet

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#1534791 18-Apr-2016 11:17

I see where you are coming from, but the Japanese to English software upgrade has been developed and is available in Auckland, several cities in Australia and in parts of Europe as well.

The problem is that despite being a SW upgrade (using illegally obtained tools and software), the charge for this is still over $1000 NZD. I have no issues paying money for work and expertise - but paying $1600 (last quote I got) for someone to plug a USB device in and click install isn't something I want to reinforce.

I'll muddle along with the Japanese.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

dwl

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#1534801 18-Apr-2016 11:38

The imports from the UK usually have a price premium but that is offset by these language issues plus the voltage being the same means less issues than trying to use a 200V Japanese EVSE.

Thanks to Ruki for the detailed and realistic explanation.

The remaining question is around the GPS - I assume the UK/USA units won't take NZ maps?

nunz

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#1534818 18-Apr-2016 11:53

Linuxluver:

Oncop53:

Just get the import. A colleague of mine just got one and is pretty happy with it. The imports are newer models than what they sold in NZ anyway.

He started a blog: https://nissanleafev.wordpress.com/

Looks like that's the plan. :-)

There is a few on Trademe and one of the sellers is offering two year warranty on batteries and parts. around the 18k mark from memory and reasonable kms

RUKI

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#1535468 19-Apr-2016 11:30

Talkiet:

.... the Japanese to English software upgrade has been developed and is available in Auckland, several cities in Australia and in parts of Europe as well.

The problem is that despite being a SW upgrade (using illegally obtained tools and software), the charge for this is still over $1000 NZD. I have no issues paying money for work and expertise - but paying $1600 (last quote I got) for someone to plug a USB device in and click install isn't something I want to reinforce.

Are you sure it is "plug USB and click install" or are they offering to swap the entire Unit to the modded one?

Plugging USB cable and changing Jap to English on JDM cars seems like a fairytale for me unless someone got the manufacturer's tools and the manufacturer' soft and the car itself is built to accept the change. From what I was told - that would NOT apply to majority of JDM cars.

From the DIY perspective when no manufacturer tools/software/firmware is available, the approach one could take if embarked on that journey:

- Changing, resoldering the chip on board using specialised tools - $$$;

- Obtaining the reqired chips -$$$;

- Reprogramming those chips with direct access to the chip (USB is nowhere seen here) requires another set of legal and quite expensive tools;

- Translating thousands of lines of Japanese into English will cost $$$/hour and would require a lot of hours of hard work.

Japanese language structure is different from Russian or English.

Russian language structure differs from English in a way that: memory slot containing Russian language will handle English (as English phrases are shorter); memory slot which contains Japanese will NOT handle English as English is way longer. You would need different chip on board.

That language differencies (what is done for Jap => Ru - could be done for Ru => English) is where you do benefit on Russian developer's work, but again - they are not interested in doing English translations if there are no market for particular car (type of AV unit).

Another scenario when the car has been manufactured for the Japanese and UK market. That is when I would guess the image extracted from the UK Unit could perhaps be reimaged into Jap Unit after resoldering the chip if required. Will still require direct access to the memory chips.

Apart from the no need to translate - all other steps could still be applicable and expensive and time consuming.

Using "USB cable" as fast and easy "software upgrade" is nowhere seen in those two scenarios.

In Leaf for example - left SD card slot is used for the firmware upgrades according to the service manual.

It is not known yet if reimage to the English version is part of Nissan's toolkit or perhaps there are different chips on board developed and pre-programmed for different markets\languages.

AV units model numbers made for Leaf in USA and Japanese markets are different, surrounding buttons responsible for AV-CAN are different - chips on board could also be different.

That is my understanding of that sort of trade...

I would personally go with the car where the unit can be simply swapped to the one from the English speaking market with no need for any mods like above.

Or if my next car will need a translation - I will go with the Russian language version as there are many cars manufactured for the JDM and Russian market.

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Talkiet

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#1535499 19-Apr-2016 12:02

I am sure... for the pre 2010 Skylines they need to add hardware to get a USB port installed - for the 2010 and newer (and this includes some MY09 models) that already have the USB port (instead of a CF slot) it's a "connect via USB and upload the image".

The approach you talk about is a much dirtier and harder approach. I got as far as removing the 2.5" HDD and trying to unlock the drive with MHDD, but you can't use that on a damn laptop that supports ATA passwording :-(.... If I had been able to find a 2.5" to IDE adaptor and an old PC then I would have been able to get the unlocked image myself and create a copy to work with.

But the Russian upgrade though? It's an image they already have and they have the tools (Presumably Consult 3+) to load it on.

The image they have is well guarded.

Cheers -N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

BlueShift

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#1535514 19-Apr-2016 12:13

So I hear some of the Leaf imports come with some pretty badass extras: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11624105

wellygary

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#1535523 19-Apr-2016 12:16

BlueShift:

So I hear some of the Leaf imports come with some pretty badass extras: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11624105

I think that was the very limited edition "parking warden and towie deterrent device" :)

Scott3

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#1536080 19-Apr-2016 21:59

RUKI:

From the DIY perspective when no manufacturer tools/software/firmware is available, the approach one could take if embarked on that journey:

- Changing, resoldering the chip on board using specialised tools - $$$;

- Obtaining the reqired chips -$$$;

- Reprogramming those chips with direct access to the chip (USB is nowhere seen here) requires another set of legal and quite expensive tools;

- Translating thousands of lines of Japanese into English will cost $$$/hour and would require a lot of hours of hard work.

Japanese language structure is different from Russian or English.

Do you know what Autolink is advertising with *** HEAD UNIT CONVERSION TO ENGLISH SERVICE AVAILABLE - ENQUIRE NOW ***

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1025161999.htm

Honestly in an increasingly globalized world, it seems quite surprising that Nissan would go to the effort to create a separate version of the car (excepting bits with writing printed on them) for each different market.

We know that the leaf can support multiple languages. Photo below from a US market leaf (lifted from youtube video)

We know they had to expend effort to program the car in English for US/UK/AU/NZ markets.

Many people would have assumed either that the English mode had been disabled in the JDM car (and a simple hack (like the BMW i3 one in the USA to add more petrol capacity) could unlock it), or a simple (plug in) re-flash (or re-image of SD card) could replace the Japanese firmware with English.

Interested to hear this is not the case.

Honestly it is a bit crap that Nissan didn't just enable this from the factory. They have done the hard work anyway. English is the worlds most spoken language. I would be great for tourists and recent migrants to japan. And they must know a lot of their JDM cars end up overseas within 6 years.

JDM BMW i3 appears to be easily changed to English (and NZ maps added to GPS) as a comparison point.

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