EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#3124726 7-Sep-2023 17:34

johno1234:

Do you need to be a little bit of a geek to like Tesla? Not heard anything terrible here, mostly positive. However there's an undercurrent of Tesla hate out there, and I see this in the news today:\

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2023/09/new-zealanders-share-regrets-over-buying-teslas.html

Oh look, its just something pulled from the reddit thread which was probably posted as bait for this exact article.

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Dingbatt

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#3124729 7-Sep-2023 17:52

Not that I have read that clickbait article, but you could replace the word “Tesla” with almost anything on Reddit and get a range of “regrets” expressed.

But do you expect any better from the NZ media? Really?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

alasta

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#3124740 7-Sep-2023 18:48

It's not "Tesla hate". It's simply a reflection of the fact that Tesla is a niche product and inevitably some people who buy them are not suited to them because they didn't do their research.

I would never be happy owning one but that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't buy them. It's just not for me.

kingdragonfly

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#3124791 7-Sep-2023 19:19

I'm hearing tales of young healthy Chinese switching from e-bikes to electric wheelchairs/mobility scooters because of a ham-fisted crackdown on ebikes.

You may want to read this article before watching the video

Six tone: China’s Relationship With E-Bikes: It’s Complicated
...
So why all the fuss? The overwhelming issue is one of road safety. Users of e-bikes have a reputation — sometimes well-deserved — for violating the rules of the road at will, often resulting in injury or death. Shenzhen police announced in April that 431 people died of road accidents in the city last year, and just over a quarter of these accidents involved e-bikes.

But there’s more to China’s e-bike storm than the locking of horns between disgruntled drivers, frustrated e-bike riders, and government officials.

The current situation is the product of the country’s wild growth, its traffic woes, and a widening socioeconomic gap.
...

And here's a video about "rectification": normally this means "the action of putting something right"

But we're talking about the clumsy awkward, bungling, inept Chinese Communist Party

Chinese Communist Party runs out of money, sells large quantity of confiscated electric bicycles to Pakistan

kingdragonfly

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#3124824 7-Sep-2023 22:12

An articles about Chinese ebikes.

Note that walking speed is about 5KPH. Advanced or elite athletes can run at distance about at 15 kph. (Ignoring sprints)

The average electric bike weight is 22kg. Electric fat bikes can weigh around 35kg.

Note that Media Watch says that "China Daily's" bias: Questionable based on the endorsement of the Chinese Communist Government and editorial positions that promote state propaganda

China Daily: Proposal urges changes to regulations on e-bikes
...
According to the Road Traffic Safety Law, an electric bike should not weigh more than 55 kilograms, while the battery's nominal voltage should not exceed 48 volts. While the designed maximum speed of e-bikes is set at 25 kph, they should not be driven faster than 15 kph.
...
Last year, Shanghai dealt with more than 3,000 such cases every day, accounting for 20 percent of all daily traffic law violation cases in the city, according to information in the proposal.
...

mattwnz

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#3125050 8-Sep-2023 16:42

jarledb:

mattwnz:

They were also looking at the Toyota BZ4X which is due out next year, which looks to be a better EV setup, but imagine it will be very popular and there will be a waiting list like there is for RAV4s.

They should have a look at the Volvo EX30 as well, if they want a car in the size of the UX300E.

The BZ4X have had some issues that Toyota seem to have fixed, but it still a fairly lackluster EV IMHO. And that is coming from a former Toyota fanboy. But it is a significantly bigger car than the UX300e, and it is actually a bespoke BEV.

They decided to go for the UX250h which is the hybrid version of the UX300e. They were too worried about range with the EV, charging availability while travelling and also it being slow at charging compared to newer EVs coming out. I t is probably a good compromise for them because it has the efficiency of Toyotas hybrid system and good fuel savings, plus the premium drive quality and reliability of Lexus. They also weren't keen on anything European or Chinese and didn't like the Hyundai or the Kia EVs where the quality and materials/quality isn't up to Lexus or Toyota IMO.

PolicyGuy

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#3126572 12-Sep-2023 16:06

Cross-posted from the Nissan Leaf thread

smac:

That RUC business is a ticking timebomb about to blow up in the Govt's face (whichever Govt that might be!). Without a legislative change between now and April, PHEV owners will start paying the same RUC as a full electric owner. But then they already also pay the FED (tax) on any petrol they buy, so effectively are taxed twice. Neither the NZTA nor the MoT know what to do about it.......

Why would a PHEV be liable for RUCs under the existing legislation?

IANAL but I think the problem is exactly the other way round: because a PHEV is petrol-fuelled, it's not RUC liable but most PHEVs will have enough battery range to complete their day's commute on battery alone, then charge up overnight. This would give them an enormous running cost advantage over all other vehicle types.
As I understand it, to make PHEVs liable for RUCs will require a legislation change

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wellygary

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#3126586 12-Sep-2023 16:58

PolicyGuy:

Cross-posted from the Nissan Leaf thread

smac:

That RUC business is a ticking timebomb about to blow up in the Govt's face (whichever Govt that might be!). Without a legislative change between now and April, PHEV owners will start paying the same RUC as a full electric owner. But then they already also pay the FED (tax) on any petrol they buy, so effectively are taxed twice. Neither the NZTA nor the MoT know what to do about it.......

Why would a PHEV be liable for RUCs under the existing legislation?

IANAL but I think the problem is exactly the other way round: because a PHEV is petrol-fuelled, it's not RUC liable but most PHEVs will have enough battery range to complete their day's commute on battery alone, then charge up overnight. This would give them an enormous running cost advantage over all other vehicle types.
As I understand it, to make PHEVs liable for RUCs will require a legislation change

Its explicit National policy for BEVs to Pay RUC,

But, the PHEV fleet is relatively small its only ~20K vehicles,

Also there are a couple of off the shelf solutions that could quickly be used...

1) Full RUC and then make the owners claim back the petrol they buy through the rebate system that already exists-

2) Develop a hybrid RUC rate based on the estimated (or sampled) average petrol mileage vs Electric mileage,

I suspect they may use option 1,

HarmLessSolutions

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#3126599 12-Sep-2023 17:02

PolicyGuy:

Cross-posted from the Nissan Leaf thread

smac:

That RUC business is a ticking timebomb about to blow up in the Govt's face (whichever Govt that might be!). Without a legislative change between now and April, PHEV owners will start paying the same RUC as a full electric owner. But then they already also pay the FED (tax) on any petrol they buy, so effectively are taxed twice. Neither the NZTA nor the MoT know what to do about it.......

Why would a PHEV be liable for RUCs under the existing legislation?

IANAL but I think the problem is exactly the other way round: because a PHEV is petrol-fuelled, it's not RUC liable but most PHEVs will have enough battery range to complete their day's commute on battery alone, then charge up overnight. This would give them an enormous running cost advantage over all other vehicle types.
As I understand it, to make PHEVs liable for RUCs will require a legislation change

ICYMI this statement from National seems like it's essentially leaked information from the RUC discussions currently taking place. It's a fair bet that an RUC for all road vehicles scenario come April 2024 will be the most likely situation no matter what government we have by year's end. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132900566/all-vehicles-to-move-to-road-user-charges-under-national-including-evs

An increase to the carbon tax on fossil fuels will then be the best disincentive against fossil fuel vehicles.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

SaltyNZ

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#3126611 12-Sep-2023 17:51

HarmLessSolutions:

It's a fair bet that an RUC for all road vehicles scenario come April 2024 will be the most likely situation no matter what government we have by year's end. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132900566/all-vehicles-to-move-to-road-user-charges-under-national-including-evs

An increase to the carbon tax on fossil fuels will then be the best disincentive against fossil fuel vehicles.

That's exactly what I argued for in my submission when they were open. Do it that way and it doesn't matter how your hybrid works: mild hybrid, PHEV, a flock of seagulls tied to the front of the car chasing a chip on a stick ... as long as everyone pays RUCs and fuel has the pollution component then hybrids pay less pollution tax in proportion to how good the hybrid system is.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Dingbatt

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#3126620 12-Sep-2023 19:03

SaltyNZ:

……….

a flock of seagulls tied to the front of the car chasing a chip on a stick .…..

As much as I think this is a brilliant solution, SAFE would probably complain. And think of the guano on the roads!

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

gzt

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#3126622 12-Sep-2023 19:11

New EV Audi touchscreen ergonomics

Stuff: The driver faces a 11.9-inch display and next door is a 14.9-inch infotainment system touchscreen.The occupant of the front passenger seat gets a 10.9-inch touchscreen. They can use this to help the driver with things like setting the navigation system and changing radio stations.

Copilot required? ; )

HarmLessSolutions

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#3126624 12-Sep-2023 19:17

gzt: New EV Audi touchscreen ergonomics

Stuff: The driver faces a 11.9-inch display and next door is a 14.9-inch infotainment system touchscreen.The occupant of the front passenger seat gets a 10.9-inch touchscreen. They can use this to help the driver with things like setting the navigation system and changing radio stations.

Copilot required? ; )

Oh dear! Whatever happened to 'Get in, sit down, shut up and hold on'? 😆

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Dingbatt

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#3126627 12-Sep-2023 19:30

They’re just ~~copying~~ taking inspiration the Mercedes Hyperscreen.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

everettpsycho

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#3126633 12-Sep-2023 20:25

The biggest issues I see with the RUC I'm April 2024 applying to everyone is the messaging to all drivers that you need to start paying for your KMs. They will need to also take every car in the countries odometer to know what to charge them, which just isn't practical.

With both those factors in mind I just think as it will realistically be November until the election winners get settled, then the summer breaks, we don't really have time to get a policy change through and then tell 4.5 million vehicle owners that how they pay for their car is about to change in a month or two. I suspect we'll get one more stay of execution at least for PHEVs if not all EVs with messaging starting to come out early next year and preparations for the all in on RUC for everyone in FY26.

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