EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#3158065 10-Nov-2023 14:53

SaltyNZ:

Two supermarkets I shop at have BYO cable AC chargers. Do I ever neeeeeed to charge at them? No. But since I have the cable, it'd be dumb not to. Same as at your meeting.

The only charger I got with my EV6 was the 3-pin plug type, so I can't take advantage of that free charging. My 3-pin cable is now in the frunk for the rare occasion I might need to use it but so far I charge at home. I have an EVNEX which gives me all I need using Contact's 3-hour free power plan.

I see smartevchargers.co.nz offering 5m 32a 7kW for $229 and 22kW 3 Phase for $268. Are there better deals?

What stops the cable from being stolen? Does the EV need to be configured to not unlock when power stops flowing? That would be annoying when charging at home in the garage.

Edit: Looks like it's tied to locking and unlocking the car. That makes sense.

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sultanoswing

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#3158101 10-Nov-2023 16:54

The cable is locked to the car in our case unless you hit the unlock button on the remote.

We've got the 7.4kW Envex at home for charging, with a tethered cable, so the just-discovered Type-2 is only for out & about emergencies when we can't get on a CCS.

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#3158103 10-Nov-2023 17:11

Shadowfoot:
<p>I see smartevchargers.co.nz offering 5m 32a 7kW for $229 and 22kW 3 Phase for $268. Are there better deals?</p>

I have a feeling that’s pretty typical pricing, eg the 3 phase one’s within $1 of what I have (https://shop.driveev.co.nz/collections/wall-chargers/products/type-2-to-type-2-ev-charging-cable).

Some recommend getting slightly longer cables as it can offer more flexibility in some situations - the example I’ve been given is a charger in Wellington (Bond St?), where it requires Tesla owners (and others with rear ports) to potenially park the wrong way to be able to reach the charger with a shorter cable. (I think some have been fined for this.) I just got the 5m; I’ve used it 3-4 times, so hasn’t proven its worth yet - but I’m happy I’m prepared!

idleidolidyll

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#3158811 13-Nov-2023 09:16

We bought a used BMW 13 with just 22,000km on the clock earlier this year, The battery was in almost new condition and gets between 170-230km per charge from its 94Ah battery.

We want to do our bit for the planet and have also bought electric bikes and scooters for short trips and sight seeing (i can't walk more than maybe a km due to injuries).

Although people like us would buy an EV on the basis of it's environmental footprint alone; we were also swayed into this by the cost savings. Charging at home off peak costs use 15-20c per kwh or about $5 for an average 200km range. That's less than 1l/100km equivalent at today's petrol price for 91 octane.

Sadly, the cost incentive is ending in two ways for many people and it will be MORE expensive to run an EV than a small petrol car soon. The new RUC charges coming in 2024 will add $15 per 200km to my costs: 4x the current cost, making it about the same as running a small car like a Toyota, Suzuki or Smart with a 1200c motor. The extra cost to buy an EV vs those small petrol cars (new or used) will dissuade many from switching.

However, for many people living in new high density subdivisions in Auckland or other cities; charging at home is virtually impossible. You are unlikely to get more than a single street level carpark per house in these new developments and many don't have any car parks. Others have unassigned carparks so you can't park close enough to your home to charge an EV (try to imagine lots of long charging cables snaking all over the roads and footpaths as people in high density homes try to charge their EV's at night).

For those people; the news gets MUCH worse! If you can't charge at home, you most likely have to use a public charger. It seems that the big players have settled on rates of 75-85c/kwh for charging and some even charge per minute on top of that. That's over 4x as much as my night rate charging making the running cost of an EV about the same as a small car in fuel. Then there's the upcoming RUC charge adding another $15 per 200km making the cost of running an EV roughly the same as running a modern high spec petrol car (8-10l/100km).

The public fast charger rate of 75-85c/kwh is outrageous! I don't believe these companies will be paying more than a night rate for the electricity they buy and rare charging it out at over 4x that cost. That suggests they want to recover setup costs in a year or so and after that they'll be absolutely printing money!

sultanoswing

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#3158863 13-Nov-2023 09:33

idleidolidyll:

...the cost incentive is ending in two ways for many people and it will be MORE expensive to run an EV than a small petrol car soon. The new RUC charges coming in 2024 will add $15 per 200km to my costs: 4x the current cost, making it about the same as running a small car like a Toyota, Suzuki or Smart with a 1200c motor. The extra cost to buy an EV vs those small petrol cars (new or used) will dissuade many from switching.

This is why, given our species' need to mitigate climate change, we as a country / globe need to do more climate-friendly initiatives, not take away the nascent measures in place. Idiotic.

Given the economics of installing charging stations you've outlined, one might question why an incentive is needed for companies to build them (*cough* National party policy).

And finally - don't worry. The cost of fossil fuels is only going one way over time. Up.

(mind you, so is electricity).

GV27

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#3158874 13-Nov-2023 10:10

I mean, there's the cost of the use of the land, the customer support and the technical backends that need to manage everything as well as the actual resources to stand-up for things like repairs and maintenance. There's a bunch of ongoing costs just like any other service provider that go far beyond the cost of the energy.

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idleidolidyll

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#3158882 13-Nov-2023 10:32

GV27:

I mean, there's the cost of the use of the land, the customer support and the technical backends that need to manage everything as well as the actual resources to stand-up for things like repairs and maintenance. There's a bunch of ongoing costs just like any other service provider that go far beyond the cost of the energy.

That's really just empty wordage without specific data to back up these insanely high prices. For many installations, I doubt there's really much rental cost. If at an existing gas station, none, just use of a couple of carparks and the people will usually cover that with in store purchases as their car charges.

The engineering technicalities and support probably don't vary much location to location and are probably already covered by the existing commercial usage (gas station, supermarket etc) so that's not an ongoing development cost of great import.

Sure, there are installation costs but what are they factually not from vox pop or company propaganda? Actual data please.

We are constantly told that gas stations only make "a few cents per litre" over the cost of the fuel to them. If we extend that argument to charging an EV, it disintegrates completely because the cost to them per kwh (excluding infrastructure setup) is less than 1/4 of the charge out price to the consumer.

It doesn't add up and we should not be allowing this to become the norm.

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#3158884 13-Nov-2023 10:37

idleidolidyll: The public fast charger rate of 75-85c/kwh is outrageous! I don't believe these companies will be paying more than a night rate for the electricity they buy and rare charging it out at over 4x that cost. That suggests they want to recover setup costs in a year or so and after that they'll be absolutely printing money!

I hear this claim all the time but I haven’t seen the actual figures to back it up. (Clearly you won’t be wanting to use a Tesla charger for a non-Tesla, given they’re charging [I think] 99c/kWh?!)

Do we know the actual cost to install fast chargers? I imagine they’re not small figures, given we’re not only talking the cost of the equipment but the time and hassle of the necessary permits, land rental costs etc. Then there’s the maintenance. And how about their replacement? ChargeNet may have the most substantial network, but they’re also the most ‘mature’ so are needing to upgrade many to provide speeds that many cars are now capable of and many owners expect.

I may come across as an apologist for the charging companies, which I’m not; I just don’t think it’s as simple as saying they’re ripping us off…

HarmLessSolutions

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#3158885 13-Nov-2023 10:42

jonathan18:
idleidolidyll: The public fast charger rate of 75-85c/kwh is outrageous! I don't believe these companies will be paying more than a night rate for the electricity they buy and rare charging it out at over 4x that cost. That suggests they want to recover setup costs in a year or so and after that they'll be absolutely printing money!

I hear this claim all the time but I haven’t seen the actual figures to back it up. (Clearly you won’t be wanting to use a Tesla charger for a non-Tesla, given they’re charging [I think] 99c/kWh?!)

Do we know the actual cost to install fast chargers? I imagine they’re not small figures, given we’re not only talking the cost of the equipment but the time and hassle of the necessary permits, land rental costs etc. Then there’s the maintenance. And how about their replacement? ChargeNet may have the most substantial network, but they’re also the most ‘mature’ so are needing to upgrade many to provide speeds that many cars are now capable of and many owners expect.

I may come across as an apologist for the charging companies, which I’m not; I just don’t think it’s as simple as saying they’re ripping us off…

Also worth considering that in many locations the underlying grid infrastructure requires upgrading in order to cope with the high demands that DC charging facilities require.

Case in point is the New Plymouth Chargenet 50kW charger that struggles to maintain that supply rate due to inadequacies in the grid in the local CBD.

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trig42

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#3158886 13-Nov-2023 10:45

We took our MG4 (Excite 64) on a roadie to Napier for the weekend just gone. Driving from the Thames area, it's about 320km.

We got to Taupo with about 230km on the Guess-o-meter, but decided to stop at the hyperchargers there (and grab a bite to eat).

Bit of a queue at the chargers (lots of people going to Napier for the Mission Concert). Waited about 10 minutes for spot to open up, and plugged in. Got a nice quick top up (about 15 minutes I think) to 90% from about 45%. Used a lot of energy going up the Napier/Taupo, got all of it, plus some, going back down to seal level on the other side.

Napier has some issues with charger capability.

There are only two DC chargers in Napier (plus, I think one at BP Bayview, but I'm not sure of it's capacity). The two Napier ones had queues pretty much all weekend from what I could see on the ChargeNet app. We waited about 5 minutes at the Dickens St charger, which we were lucky to get (we'd been to the Greenmeadows one before that and three cars were waiting). Got a 40% increase in charge there in about 30 minutes, and when we returned to the vehicle, two cars were waiting.

Talked to a guy there in a Tesla who was over from Palmy, he said Palmy was similar - not enough public charging. Hastings only has one charger also.

I'll admit, Napier was super busy with visitors, so that may account for the chargers being so busy, but it's not a great look. Maybe National's promise of more fast chargers can't come soon enough.

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#3158887 13-Nov-2023 10:45

Jeep has released the Avenger in NZ today, which looks like a well price option at $67k before the rebate and with 400km of WLTP range. Looks like they have some limited stock ready to deliver before the rebate ends as well.

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#3158949 13-Nov-2023 11:17

trig42:
We took our MG4 (Excite 64) on a roadie to Napier for the weekend just gone. …
Talked to a guy there in a Tesla who was over from Palmy, he said Palmy was similar - not enough public charging. Hastings only has one charger also.

I'll admit, Napier was super busy with visitors, so that may account for the chargers being so busy, but it's not a great look. Maybe National's promise of more fast chargers can't come soon enough.

Glad it generally went well - charging availability aside, are you pleased with the car? Any things that particularly niggle?

As for charging availability in PN, on a per capita basis I’d agree PN is poorly done by; we currently only have a couple of Chargenet chargers, one the old 50kW one-car-at-a-time unit, and another that’s 75kW (but I believe can charge two at a time). Plus there are 4-5 Tesla Supercharger booths of which only a couple are available at the moment.

But currently I don’t see them being over-burdened, eg I’ve hardly ever seen someone waiting for them. This reflects that PN isn’t really much of a destination for many! More importantly, there’s been a good growth of chargers nearby on the main routes, eg both Tesla and ChargeNet have opened fast chargers in Bulls this year.

So PN is unlike Napier, which is a significant destination for tourists - as such that city needs lots more to be able to cope with this kind of demand (and Tesla’s only charger there is out of Havelock North.) It’s the same for places like Taupo and Rotorua.

sultanoswing

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#3158951 13-Nov-2023 11:19

trig42:

Napier has some issues with charger capability.

....

Talked to a guy there in a Tesla who was over from Palmy, he said Palmy was similar - not enough public charging. Hastings only has one charger also.

That was our recent experience in Napier & Hastings a couple of weekends ago. We were surprised by how few fast chargers there are there, especially with CCS plugs. Only 1 in Hastings and 2 in Napier. Hence our interest in the slower but more available Type 2 charging stations around town, of which there are several more options (7 type 2's in Palmy and 9 in Napier/Hastings, according to PlugShare).

We live in Palmy, so weren't aware of the lack of fast DC charging stations here (since we've got a 7.4kW charger @ home).

Got to up the game NZ!

Fortunately, the obvious solution is for existing petrol stations to install more chargers over time. Apparently they make most of their money from the carbonated beverages and carbohydrates people buy in-store, rather than the hydrocarbons for sale on the forecourt, so having a captive audience for half an hour is a business no-brainer for them.

idleidolidyll

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#3158956 13-Nov-2023 11:29

HarmLessSolutions:

jonathan18:

I hear this claim all the time but I haven’t seen the actual figures to back it up. (Clearly you won’t be wanting to use a Tesla charger for a non-Tesla, given they’re charging [I think] 99c/kWh?!)

Do we know the actual cost to install fast chargers? I imagine they’re not small figures, given we’re not only talking the cost of the equipment but the time and hassle of the necessary permits, land rental costs etc. Then there’s the maintenance. And how about their replacement? ChargeNet may have the most substantial network, but they’re also the most ‘mature’ so are needing to upgrade many to provide speeds that many cars are now capable of and many owners expect.

I may come across as an apologist for the charging companies, which I’m not; I just don’t think it’s as simple as saying they’re ripping us off…
Also worth considering that in many locations the underlying grid infrastructure requires upgrading in order to cope with the high demands that DC charging facilities require.

Case in point is the New Plymouth Chargenet 50kW charger that struggles to maintain that supply rate due to inadequacies in the grid in the local CBD.

Actually, that's what I said: those supporting the current outrageous charging rates have not posted one iota of data supporting the supposed installation and plant costs they are defending and your post is just another example of that: it's all pure conjecture and I wonder whether they have shares in supply companies.

Perhaps they just don't give a damn about the cost of running a vehicle or about incentivising the reduction of pollution.

GV27

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#3158965 13-Nov-2023 12:05

idleidolidyll:

That's really just empty wordage without specific data to back up these insanely high prices. For many installations, I doubt there's really much rental cost. If at an existing gas station, none, just use of a couple of carparks and the people will usually cover that with in store purchases as their car charges.

The engineering technicalities and support probably don't vary much location to location and are probably already covered by the existing commercial usage (gas station, supermarket etc) so that's not an ongoing development cost of great import.

Sure, there are installation costs but what are they factually not from vox pop or company propaganda? Actual data please.

We are constantly told that gas stations only make "a few cents per litre" over the cost of the fuel to them. If we extend that argument to charging an EV, it disintegrates completely because the cost to them per kwh (excluding infrastructure setup) is less than 1/4 of the charge out price to the consumer.

It doesn't add up and we should not be allowing this to become the norm.

What you call 'empty wordage' is in reality the kind of overheads that any customer-facing business incurs.

I'm not the one making the allegation of profiteering, that's you. And you seem to be doing so based solely on what you're assuming is the energy cost. I'm not sure I'm the one who needs to be providing 'actual data' here.

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