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kingdragonfly
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  #3181516 13-Jan-2024 18:45
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Fleetnews.co.uk: Electric vehicle insurance premium increases 'based on bad data'

Insurance premiums on electric vehicles (EVs) are being hiked by some firms based on ‘incorrect and irrelevant’ information, according to the Association for Fleet Professionals (AFP).

The trade body is calling for fleet decision-makers to work with their insurers so that they understand the degree of risk surrounding EVs better.

Paul Hollick, AFP chair, said: “We’re hearing of issues in certain areas. The first is the repair data that insurers employ to calculate premiums.

“Many are using information based entirely on experience with Teslas and applying this across the board to all EVs, even to vans.

“Clearly, this is problematic. The repair profile of Teslas is applicable only to Teslas, in the same way as any other manufacturer, and has very little relevance to commercial vehicles.”

Hollick believes that fleets and insurers need to be working together to create a situation where premiums can be calculated based on much better and directly applicable data.

He also highlighted how some insurers seemed unsure of the value of an EV that had been written off in an accident.

“This is especially the case where the battery may have been damaged as part of the write-off,” he said. “Some insurers seem to be working on the incorrect basis that the battery has no market worth. Again, this needs to be included in the maths behind premiums.”

The fire risk of EVs also appears to be a concern for insurers, with the potential for damage to then spread beyond the vehicle itself to other cars and vans, as well as surrounding property.

However, Hollick said: “EV fires, when they occur, are a serious issue, but experience so far shows that they are very rare – substantially less likely than fires in ICE vehicles – and we are unaware of cases where there has been a fire and a significant amount of harm has been caused in the immediate vicinity. The risk is just not that high.”

Research by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency, published in report in May 2023, revealed that internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles were 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs in Sweden
...



gzt

gzt
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  #3181517 13-Jan-2024 18:47
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ANglEAUT: During the repairs of my rear-end collision, there also was talks of concerns about "baking" the car & the impact on the batteries.

Factory paint temperature is usually high. Aftermarket paint usually not. What is the temperature and is it really high enough to be an issue?

kingdragonfly
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  #3181569 14-Jan-2024 07:39
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I had a friend who traded in his SUV for a second generation Leaf, which was approximately the same value and year.

His insurance premiums in NZ actually went down

He did a quote for a 2020 Tesla Model on the AA insurance site and it was more expensive, but he said was not unreasonable.

He guessed accidents haven't reached a level to trigger insurance company reactions here.



kingdragonfly
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  #3183791 19-Jan-2024 08:34
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Electrek: Dead Tesla cars pile up at Chicago Superchargers in extreme cold
...
Some are suggesting that the issue is that Tesla owners are not pre-conditioning their battery pack before charging, which Tesla recommends especially in cold conditions.

However, pre-conditioning of the battery pack is done automatically if you enter a Supercharger station in the car’s navigation system.

Therefore, it would be surprising if that’s the issue for most of them.

It’s possible that the Superchargers themselves are failing due to the extreme cold weather in the region.

Unfortunately, Tesla doesn’t have a PR department to reach out to and ask for more details about the situation.
...

Dead Teslas pack Chicago area Supercharger station due to frigid temps

FOX 32 Chicago




robjg63
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  #3183852 19-Jan-2024 10:29
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kingdragonfly: Electrek: Dead Tesla cars pile up at Chicago Superchargers in extreme cold
...
Some are suggesting that the issue is that Tesla owners are not pre-conditioning their battery pack before charging, which Tesla recommends especially in cold conditions.

However, pre-conditioning of the battery pack is done automatically if you enter a Supercharger station in the car’s navigation system.

Therefore, it would be surprising if that’s the issue for most of them.

 

If you are a local you probably wont think to enter the charger into your navigation system because you know how to get there.

 

It does bring up a problem with Tesla though. There is no way to turn on battery pre-conditioning 'manually'.

 

It seems a commonly requested feature that people have asked for - but Tesla is not listening.

 

So here in NZ, we have a few Tesla chargers where you could enter the destination and have your battery ready.

 

But more often you would be using a non Tesla charger and cant pre-condition. I saw enhancements in a couple of countries where Tesla were going to start adding third party charges into their navigation list - pretty sure its not been done for NZ. 

 

 





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MarkH67
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  #3183876 19-Jan-2024 11:31
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Maybe there is some reason that I haven't thought of? But why don't Tesla cars detect an issue with the battery temperature being too low and automatically turn on the battery conditioner as soon as you plug in a charger and try to charge while having a battery under a certain temperature? How many minutes would this take? Surely it would be better to take a few minutes longer to charge than to be unable to charge and be stranded?


 
 
 

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johno1234
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  #3183879 19-Jan-2024 11:34
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This is an issue for non-LFP batteries, right?

 

 


Obraik
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  #3183905 19-Jan-2024 11:55
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kingdragonfly: Electrek: Dead Tesla cars pile up at Chicago Superchargers in extreme cold
...
Some are suggesting that the issue is that Tesla owners are not pre-conditioning their battery pack before charging, which Tesla recommends especially in cold conditions.

However, pre-conditioning of the battery pack is done automatically if you enter a Supercharger station in the car’s navigation system.

Therefore, it would be surprising if that’s the issue for most of them.

It’s possible that the Superchargers themselves are failing due to the extreme cold weather in the region.

Unfortunately, Tesla doesn’t have a PR department to reach out to and ask for more details about the situation.
...

Dead Teslas pack Chicago area Supercharger station due to frigid temps

FOX 32 Chicago



 

I think the most plausible explanation I've seen for this issue in Chicago is that Tesla used the wrong coolant type in the Superchargers for that region, under the assumption it wouldn't get that cold. This theory is based on the description people have posted about the chargers - the cables were extra stiff but some people found that putting the cable in the boot for a bit or heating it with a heat gun defrosted the cable enough to restore full functionality. When these watercooled Superchargers detect a fault with the coolant (eg, it's not flowing) they go into limp mode and only charge at around 20kW. This is further backed up by the fact that Superchargers in Canada and other much colder locations did not have these issues, presumably because they had a coolant type that was capable of handling these much colder temps.





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johno1234
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  #3183917 19-Jan-2024 12:22
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EV charging problems due to cold temperatures - oh the irony!

 

 


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  #3183939 19-Jan-2024 13:05
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MarkH67:

 

Maybe there is some reason that I haven't thought of? But why don't Tesla cars detect an issue with the battery temperature being too low and automatically turn on the battery conditioner as soon as you plug in a charger and try to charge while having a battery under a certain temperature? How many minutes would this take? Surely it would be better to take a few minutes longer to charge than to be unable to charge and be stranded?

 

 

Because it takes battery power to pre-condition the battery, if you turn up with it cold and not enough to warm it up, then it will actually not start charging. As a DC charger has a direct connection to the battery, that will not start until the battery is at a suitable temperature level. If they let it get too low it will not be able to charge.

 

Also there is the problem of the old lead acid 12v's failing with the colder temperatures that the news media is not smart enough to know the difference with.





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  #3183943 19-Jan-2024 13:10
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johno1234:

 

This is an issue for non-LFP batteries, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's still an issue for LFPs, just not as badly.





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Obraik
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  #3183961 19-Jan-2024 13:49
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MarkH67:

 

Maybe there is some reason that I haven't thought of? But why don't Tesla cars detect an issue with the battery temperature being too low and automatically turn on the battery conditioner as soon as you plug in a charger and try to charge while having a battery under a certain temperature? How many minutes would this take? Surely it would be better to take a few minutes longer to charge than to be unable to charge and be stranded?

 

 

If you are actively navigating to a Supercharger then the car will indeed start preconditioning the battery to get it to the right temp. If you arrive at the charger without doing this then it will spend the first few minutes warming the pack until it's up to temp.

 

As previously mentioned though, from what I've read the problem was more an issue with the chargers rather than the cars themselves.





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jarledb
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  #3183968 19-Jan-2024 14:11
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Coolant in the cars and the chargers might be part of that problem.

 

It is interesting to see that in Norway ICE cars have more problems in the cold than EVs

 

Worth mentioning that Oslo and the surrounding area have had lower temperatures than normal the last couple of months.

 

 





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kingdragonfly
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  #3183970 19-Jan-2024 14:18
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Someone had this comment. I'm not sure if it's correct

"I've read several articles about this and it seems like it's a combination of problems:

1) snow plows piling snow up and blocking several stalls at some locations

2) some chargers had the connectors lying in the snow which froze them up and made them unusable.

They stated that the hooks weren't working right, but could also be if people tried them and they didn't work the typical action is to leave the connector off the hook so others know that charger is down.

3) caused by people that hadn't preconditioned. When they plug in a cold car the charge power is 0 until it warms up a bit.

Someone could see that and unplug, leave the connector off the hook and move to another station even though there really was nothing wrong with the charger.

4) Lack of preconditioning in general will vastly increase the charge time in cold weather, so what is usually a 15 minute charge could be an hour or more.

When a snow storm or cold weather is coming they always warn you to fill your tank before hand in case you get stuck.

No different with an EV. Cold weather does have some detrimental effects to EVs (and ICE cars too, I've had many a dead battery on a cold morning), but generally not too bad if you're prepared. "

wellygary
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  #3183971 19-Jan-2024 14:18
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Obraik:

 

If you are actively navigating to a Supercharger then the car will indeed start preconditioning the battery to get it to the right temp. If you arrive at the charger without doing this then it will spend the first few minutes warming the pack until it's up to temp.

 

 

Yip,

 

This dude parked his M3 in an adjacent lot  for a couple of day to get it "deep frozen" then he drove over to the supercharger and began charging, - 

 

It took over 40 mins to condition the pack before it actually started to charge, - also he didn't navigate to the charger, just drove there - the M3 nags him to navigate there next time 

 

Also one of the chargers would not latch, they suspected it may have  fallen on the ground ( in the snow) 

 

 

 

 

 


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