EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#3243587 1-Jun-2024 21:58

Further to the CHAdeMO to CCS2 ratio discussion above.

Took our leaf for a day trip today.

Trip required a charging stop on the way out and on the way back, with the fairly new Z walkworth chargers being the obvious pick:

Configuration is 2x 180kW chargers, each with two (simultaneous use, power share) cords.

Left most one is a 200A CHAdeMO cord (100kW @ 500V), and the other three are 400A CCS 2 cords. (400A is important on CCS2 cords otherwise ~350V cars like tesla will bottleneck on the cord at around 75kW, and won't be able to max out the charger).

But on ratio: Both times I turned up and every cord was vacant except the CHAdeMO one I needed. It was occupied by a leaf at the first stop and a env200 at my second stop. Pretty frustrating to have to sit and wait while the three other cords are vacant.

While only 1/3rd of NZ's EV fleet is CHAdeMO, they were sure over-represented at this charger today. A long range EV wouldn't have needed to charge at all for the trip I did today, but my leaf required two stops. Assume this location at ~65km from central Auckland will have a disproportionate representation of shorter range EV's (many of which have CHAdeMO plugs).

richms

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#3243650 2-Jun-2024 12:07

Scott3:

While only 1/3rd of NZ's EV fleet is CHAdeMO, they were sure over-represented at this charger today. A long range EV wouldn't have needed to charge at all for the trip I did today, but my leaf required two stops. Assume this location at ~65km from central Auckland will have a disproportionate representation of shorter range EV's (many of which have CHAdeMO plugs).

The I guess a leaf was not the appropriate vehicle for this trip?

Richard rich.ms

SaltyNZ

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#3243789 2-Jun-2024 16:02

Scott3:

Further to the CHAdeMO to CCS2 ratio discussion above.

Took our leaf for a day trip today.

Trip required a charging stop on the way out and on the way back, with the fairly new Z walkworth chargers being the obvious pick:

Configuration is 2x 180kW chargers, each with two (simultaneous use, power share) cords.

Left most one is a 200A CHAdeMO cord (100kW @ 500V), and the other three are 400A CCS 2 cords. (400A is important on CCS2 cords otherwise ~350V cars like tesla will bottleneck on the cord at around 75kW, and won't be able to max out the charger).

But on ratio: Both times I turned up and every cord was vacant except the CHAdeMO one I needed. It was occupied by a leaf at the first stop and a env200 at my second stop. Pretty frustrating to have to sit and wait while the three other cords are vacant.

While only 1/3rd of NZ's EV fleet is CHAdeMO, they were sure over-represented at this charger today. A long range EV wouldn't have needed to charge at all for the trip I did today, but my leaf required two stops. Assume this location at ~65km from central Auckland will have a disproportionate representation of shorter range EV's (many of which have CHAdeMO plugs).

That one was a bit weird when I tried to use it the other night. The app insisted both plugs on the left unit were CHAdeMO and would not start the CCS2 charger. I moved to the right unit and it started but would not run faster than 29kW.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3243792 2-Jun-2024 16:06

SaltyNZ:

That one was a bit weird when I tried to use it the other night. The app insisted both plugs on the left unit were CHAdeMO and would not start the CCS2 charger. I moved to the right unit and it started but would not run faster than 29kW.

Why are Z making a dog's breakfast of their EV charging facilities? The cynic in me suspects a conflict of interest with their primary energy products.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Scott3

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#3244015 3-Jun-2024 02:41

SaltyNZ:

That one was a bit weird when I tried to use it the other night. The app insisted both plugs on the left unit were CHAdeMO and would not start the CCS2 charger. I moved to the right unit and it started but would not run faster than 29kW.

Just checked the app, it is only showing 2 CCS (vacant) & 1 Chadamo (in use) at the moment, so there is something up. Nothing seemed wrong with any of the CCS cords when I visited. (I started with a fob so didn't see this untill now).

There was a tesla (arrived while I was waiting) in the third bay charging at ~90kW on Saturday

HarmLessSolutions:

Why are Z making a dog's breakfast of their EV charging facilities? The cynic in me suspects a conflict of interest with their primary energy products.

Generally Z are making a solid effort. These are the cheapest fast chargers around, and pritty good too.

200A CHAdeMO cable so e+ leaf's should get to the top of their charge curve, and 400A CCS cables so fast charging 400v cars like tesla don't hit a bottleneck.

SaltyNZ's issue is likely to just be a teething issue.

And the issue with only a single token CHAdeMO cord being provided screams of somebody calling the shorts from overseas. In Europe, USA, Aust etc, CHAdeMO is on death door.

NZ is a bit of a special case with 1/3rd of our Pure EV fleet having the port, and 1/4 of our EV's coming used from Japan with the port. We are one of the few (non japan) markets which will have enough demand for this charging port type to keep it alive for the foreseeable future.

gzt

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#3244539 4-Jun-2024 22:40

Batteries used to improve local charger capacity

https://www.interest.co.nz/technology/128086/using-recycled-nissan-leaf-batteries-counties-energy-deploys-240-kwh-stored

exador

95 posts

Master Geek

#3245069 6-Jun-2024 07:31

EV sales continue to crater in May (along with new car market in general). Biggest seller Tesla MY with 44 units…

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SaltyNZ

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#3245079 6-Jun-2024 08:38

exador: EV sales continue to crater in May (along with new car market in general). Biggest seller Tesla MY with 44 units…

Meanwhile, diesel sales have rebounded to levels equal or higher than pre-Clean Car Scheme, showing that the reason EV sales tanked is not because the economy is bad. Diesel utes are more expensive than Teslas.

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johno1234

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#3245080 6-Jun-2024 08:45

But diesel utes got cheaper with the removal of the ute tax and most are work vehicles so there will be a bump of deferred purchases.

SaltyNZ

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#3245087 6-Jun-2024 09:14

johno1234: But diesel utes got cheaper with the removal of the ute tax and most are work vehicles so there will be a bump of deferred purchases.

Yes, a 6 month long bump.

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Scott3

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#3245119 6-Jun-2024 11:21

SaltyNZ:

johno1234: But diesel utes got cheaper with the removal of the ute tax and most are work vehicles so there will be a bump of deferred purchases.

Yes, a 6 month long bump.

Should note that while there is a bump (7.3% year on year for light commercial vehicles), the above graph in percentage terms don't really show what a bad state the new NZ car industry is in. Despite this slight increase in light commercials, overall new vehicle registrations are down 23.7% vs May 2024. This means the passenger and SUV segment is down 33.4 per cent. This is massive.

"NEW ZEALAND new car sales for May have declined for a fifth consecutive month with just 10,186 vehicles sold across the period."

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/nz-sales/nz-sales-2024/nz-sales-may-sales-mayday/2024-06-05/93999.html

It seems utes / vans are doing OK (likely off the back of deferred purchases that would have been made in late 2024 if not for the pending demise of the clean car discount), so I would expect this to start to trend down too as some point.

Anything with a plug is getting absolutely smoked. General downward trend of the passenger & SUV market stacked with the loss of the Clean car discount and introduction of RUC's.

“May saw a relentless dip in new vehicle registrations, perpetuating an ongoing decline. While light commercial sales remained steady and heavy vehicle sales saw an uptick, the light passenger segment continues to be hit hardest by the prevailing economic recession,” the MIA said.

“The distressing trend of falling registrations has persisted for the year’s first five months, underscoring the sector’s struggle.”

......

At 10,186 new vehicle registrations, May 2024 is 23.7 per cent – or 3168 vehicle sales lower than May 2023 (3168 units) and 23.6 per cent lower than May 2022.

Year-to-date, 2024 is 13.3 per cent lower (or 8198 fewer sales) than 2023 and 23.8 per cent lower (or 16,703) than 2022.

“Recognising that industry consolidation is a pressing concern right now, it’s disheartening to note that several dealerships have already shut down in recent months,”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/distressing-fifth-straight-month-of-slow-new-car-sales-more-dealers-closures-likely/XWIJR6NAYRCWBPML36LDTEHBKA [paywall]

It seems the market sentiment has suddenly flipped from the late pandemic stage (shortage of new cars, long wait times on popular models, rapid inflation of new car prices, near zero depreciation on young popular models making it logical to place a new order when you take delivery of your Rav4, and upgrade when you get through the queue in 18 months). FOMO was real, and cashed up people had money burning a hole in their product from canceled international travel. Also the incorrectly balanced clean car discount was pumping millions of taxpayer dollars into the auto industry.

Currently deals cars seem to be in abundance, and we are seeing price cuts, also we are starting to see a return to normal (or even an overshoot of normal) when it comes to car deprecation. A lot of cashed up people already have fairly new cars, and economic concern means people are being tighter with spending, and auto production has overshot demand now that late pandemic demand has died down. FOMO has been replaced by fear of overpaying, and getting hit with excessive depreciation. No longer any need to hurry to buy a car as cars are abundant, and prices seem to be trending down.

Obraik

2123 posts

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#3245170 6-Jun-2024 11:44

exador: EV sales continue to crater in May (along with new car market in general). Biggest seller Tesla MY with 44 units…

It's interesting to me how far ahead Tesla is in sales compared to the other EV options, given how many more options there are now. YTD, the Model 3 is in second place with 195, but its closest competitor (BYD Seal) is only on 89. The Model Y is way ahead in first on 336 while its closes competitor (VW ID4) is all the way down on 65.

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SaltyNZ

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#3245226 6-Jun-2024 12:36

Scott3:

getting hit with excessive depreciation.

Never really understood this sentiment. Unless you're buying one of a tiny handful of extremely rare vintage models (in which case it's going to sit in the garage under a sheet) then the car is no more an investment than a screwdriver is. You buy a car to drive until it's time to replace it, not to make money. You buy it, it loses value. End of story.

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dafman

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#3245227 6-Jun-2024 12:43

Obraik:

exador: EV sales continue to crater in May (along with new car market in general). Biggest seller Tesla MY with 44 units…

It's interesting to me how far ahead Tesla is in sales compared to the other EV options, given how many more options there are now. YTD, the Model 3 is in second place with 195, but its closest competitor (BYD Seal) is only on 89. The Model Y is way ahead in first on 336 while its closes competitor (VW ID4) is all the way down on 65.

Limited alternatives at present to Tesla, but the horizon is changing quickly. It will interesting to revisit Tesla demand in 24 months as there will be much greater variety for NZ'ers from Chinese manufacturers - these will be latest tech/design, almost certainly lower prices, competing against Tesla's ageing Model 3 & Y designs.

An ever increasing erratic Musk is sadly squandering Tesla's early innovator advantage. With no new mainstream models on the horizon, price-cutting /lay offs and recent expensive debacles (ie Cybertruck), I'm predicting bankruptcy within 3 - 5 years.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

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#3245237 6-Jun-2024 12:56

SaltyNZ:

Scott3:

getting hit with excessive depreciation.

Never really understood this sentiment. Unless you're buying one of a tiny handful of extremely rare vintage models (in which case it's going to sit in the garage under a sheet) then the car is no more an investment than a screwdriver is. You buy a car to drive until it's time to replace it, not to make money. You buy it, it loses value. End of story.

Back in the 1960s my late father used to regularly update his own company car every year or two which made economic (and tax) sense, and assisted his employees in doing the same. Over the following decades this strategy fell out of favour largely as a result of the increasingly significant drop in value new cars suffered as they left the franchisee's yard. The exception for my Dad was a 1969 Mercedes he was able to purchase due to the NZ agent for them being the same one he dealt with in regard to heavy earthmoving plant. That car was onsold earlier than usual as the restricted imports of them back then saw him sell at a premium over the new price due to the limited availability of MB.

There may still be a profit to be made for those with the market knowledge and/or financial means to choose accordingly but as cars increasingly become consumer items with short usable lives those opportunities are very few and far between now IMO.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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