The case for transitioning away from (was: banning) diesel: It hurts you and especially your kids.

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › The case for transitioning away from (was: banning) diesel: It hurts you and especially your kids.

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#1603991 4-Aug-2016 06:59

Awesome looking electric bus that straddles traffic and takes up no road space.

http://electrek.co/2016/08/02/futuristic-electric-straddling-bus-full-scale-prototype/

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MikeB4

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#1604006 4-Aug-2016 07:52

Linuxluver: Awesome looking electric bus that straddles traffic and takes up no road space.

http://electrek.co/2016/08/02/futuristic-electric-straddling-bus-full-scale-prototype/

How many cities could that work in NZ? Christchurch maybe.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1604202 4-Aug-2016 12:03

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

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#1604302 4-Aug-2016 14:02

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

That's more like it. Price? Environmental impact (of harvesting hydrogen and waste products)?

MikeB4

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#1604315 4-Aug-2016 14:05

joker97:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

That's more like it. Price? Environmental impact (of harvesting hydrogen and waste products)?

The waste from a Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicle is H20.

Right now the price is high but if the internal combustion engine was being released now no one would be able to afford it. Mass production will bring the cost down. Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

BlueShift

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#1604318 4-Aug-2016 14:09

MikeB4:
Linuxluver: Awesome looking electric bus that straddles traffic and takes up no road space.

http://electrek.co/2016/08/02/futuristic-electric-straddling-bus-full-scale-prototype/

How many cities could that work in NZ? Christchurch maybe.

Not round here when I have my kayaks on my roofrack...

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#1604323 4-Aug-2016 14:12

Linuxluver: Awesome looking electric bus that straddles traffic and takes up no road space.

http://electrek.co/2016/08/02/futuristic-electric-straddling-bus-full-scale-prototype/

Novel concept but looks quite low - cars only underneath?

I wonder how much of an impact from a car it could withstand?

Why not just use steel portals to build an elevated bus route above the road, with pedestrian ramps/travelators up to bus stops.

Mike

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#1604359 4-Aug-2016 15:40

MikeB4:

joker97:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

That's more like it. Price? Environmental impact (of harvesting hydrogen and waste products)?

The waste from a Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicle is H20.

Right now the price is high but if the internal combustion engine was being released now no one would be able to afford it. Mass production will bring the cost down. Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe

In the universe, yes, accessible on the surface of this planet, not so much. You can't scoop up a bunch of hydrogen from a puddle in your yard, or drill a bore for it. Hydrogen is produced by electrolyzing water, which means for practical purposes, it is a way of transferring electrical energy to your car. So the same caveats apply as for electric cars - its only as clean as the electrical generation where they crack the water into H2 and O.

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#1604376 4-Aug-2016 16:20

Well, quantum powered cars would be the only answer. Until then ... networkin and the rest of the freight world would be driving their expensive turbo diesels

TwoSeven

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#1604433 4-Aug-2016 17:39

BlueShift:
MikeB4:

joker97:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

That's more like it. Price? Environmental impact (of harvesting hydrogen and waste products)?

The waste from a Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicle is H20.

Right now the price is high but if the internal combustion engine was being released now no one would be able to afford it. Mass production will bring the cost down. Hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe

In the universe, yes, accessible on the surface of this planet, not so much. You can't scoop up a bunch of hydrogen from a puddle in your yard, or drill a bore for it. Hydrogen is produced by electrolyzing water, which means for practical purposes, it is a way of transferring electrical energy to your car. So the same caveats apply as for electric cars - its only as clean as the electrical generation where they crack the water into H2 and O.

Umm, yes you can produce hydrogen from anything or pretty close to anything. Paper bags, plant material etc, and you don't need to use electrolysis either.

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#1604439 4-Aug-2016 17:47

I'd like to see you do it! I can't :(

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#1604544 4-Aug-2016 19:35

Industrial Hydrogen's mainly produced by steam reformation from Natural Gas. So they are kind of drilling a bore for it.. (or fracking for it..)

The major byproduct's Carbon Dioxide. But yes it can be produced from a bunch of different feedstocks, with varying energy inputs, and byproducts.

The thing I hope to see one day is electrolysis of water using solar - or at least clean - power. No byproducts at all. Unfortunately it's not energy efficient enough to be viable at the moment.

Every couple of years someone's on the verge of producing a cheap catalyst to ease the process - much like the next gen 'super' batteries that are always on the horizon.

Linuxluver

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#1604567 4-Aug-2016 20:08

MikeB4:
Linuxluver: Awesome looking electric bus that straddles traffic and takes up no road space.

http://electrek.co/2016/08/02/futuristic-electric-straddling-bus-full-scale-prototype/

How many cities could that work in NZ? Christchurch maybe.

Anywhere you build a flat-ish carriageway with a 'track' each two lanes. :-)

I wonder how you'd handle corners. Any curves would have to be gentle.

I've seen videos of the system operating. Platforms one level above the streets...and these things roll along and stop at the platforms as cars carry on below, passing through / beneath. Eliminates the need for both tunnels and a large amount of dedicated road space.....plus they are electric.

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Linuxluver

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#1604570 4-Aug-2016 20:12

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Hyundai and Toyota join forces in Australia to rollout Hydrogen infrastructure

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1608/hyundai-teams-with-toyota-to-push-hydrogen-tech-for-oz-by-2018

And the range! The range! A Hyundai ix35 FCV has a range of 594km, and takes between 3-7 minutes to refuel.

Hydrogen is zero GHG emissions, so from that perspective it's good. But making the fuel uses 2.5 times the energy released when burning it...and the energy-to-motion efficiency of the combustion is less than 50%. Plus most hydrogen is produced by burning natural gas....itself a GHG-emitting process. The other method, electrolysis, isn't so bad if it's from hydro power.....but from coal, gas or nukes it's again problematic.

You'll also have to pay heaps for it. It's not easy producing, storing and compressing hydrogen.

...and you can't fuel it up at home.

To me, it's a make-work project for fossil-fuel suppliers....to help them maintain a grip on the energy supply chain.

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Linuxluver

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#1604577 4-Aug-2016 20:21

BlueShift:

In the universe, yes, accessible on the surface of this planet, not so much. You can't scoop up a bunch of hydrogen from a puddle in your yard, or drill a bore for it. Hydrogen is produced by electrolyzing water, which means for practical purposes, it is a way of transferring electrical energy to your car. So the same caveats apply as for electric cars - its only as clean as the electrical generation where they crack the water into H2 and O.

Not quite the same as an EV. An EV is a very simple beast internally: motor + batteries + controller + internal charger.

A hydrogen fuel cell car needs to store the hydrogen and then burn it to make electricity to run the car. That's a more complex and less efficient process...and more can go wrong because you're storing an extremely volatile fuel and then burning it.

Example: ask any Nissan LEAF owner what their maintenance is like: look after the tyres and keep the windscreen reservoir full.

A fuel cell vehicle is more like an internal combustion car in that it burns fuel to make power......and necessarily creates wear and tear an EV doesn't suffer.

Hydrogen fuel cells are FAR better than internal combustion engines from an emissions point of view. They suck from most other angles (energy efficiency, arguable safety issues around hydrogen, less independence / can't fuel at home.)

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