Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Why is driver training being ignored? Aw

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MikeB4
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#2155732 7-Jan-2019 12:28

Higher speed limits do not reduce congestion and neither does lower speed limits. Passing lanes contribute a lot to congestion especially over peak periods. On four lane carriageways conjestion is often caused by chronic lane changing or last minute lane changing, eg the muppets who leave it until the last few meters to change lanses Northbound at Petone to go to Eastbourne as they forget each day that they live in Eastbourne.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

NzBeagle

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#2155736 7-Jan-2019 12:32

MikeB4:

Higher speed limits do not reduce congestion and neither does lower speed limits. Passing lanes contribute a lot to congestion especially over peak periods. On four lane carriageways conjestion is often caused by chronic lane changing or last minute lane changing, eg the muppets who leave it until the last few meters to change lanses Northbound at Petone to go to Eastbourne as they forget each day that they live in Eastbourne.

I have a love-hate relationship with passing lanes. The closing of SH2 passing lanes during holiday periods is suggested to make the route safer.

TinyTim

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#2155747 7-Jan-2019 12:56

NzBeagle:

MikeB4:

Higher speed limits do not reduce congestion and neither does lower speed limits. Passing lanes contribute a lot to congestion especially over peak periods. On four lane carriageways conjestion is often caused by chronic lane changing or last minute lane changing, eg the muppets who leave it until the last few meters to change lanses Northbound at Petone to go to Eastbourne as they forget each day that they live in Eastbourne.

I have a love-hate relationship with passing lanes. The closing of SH2 passing lanes during holiday periods is suggested to make the route safer.

That's because at those levels of traffic the road should be dual carriageway.

frankv

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#2155752 7-Jan-2019 13:06

MikeB4:

Passing lanes contribute a lot to congestion especially over peak periods.

I disagree. Traffic congestion is caused by traffic level exceeding the capacity of a bottleneck, whereas passing lanes clear the mobile bottlenecks of trucks and horse floats.

Passing lanes may be where the congestion is visible, but the congestion is likely caused by a bottleneck further ahead (e.g. an intersection or road works), otherwise by the reduction to one lane at the end of the passing lane. If there was no passing lane, there would be just as many cars in the tailback, which would extend twice as far. In a single lane, each car moves twice as fast, so there's an illusion of better progress, but it takes just as long to get through the queue.

(I knew there had to be a use for the queueing theory I learnt 40-odd years ago!)

blakamin

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#2155753 7-Jan-2019 13:07

Watched Motorway Patrol again last night... Granted it was an old episode, but a guy (restricted licence, previous fines for passengers unpaid) had his POS stickered with a non-op order for no exhaust and bald tyres. Shortly after, he peeled the sticker off and went cruising with his girlfriend (no licence). After hours.

He got pulled over again for attempting to race someone. Got another non-op sticker and another fine, but his girlfriend whinged she had no way of getting home. SO THE COP LET THEM DRIVE THE CAR... Not only that, the girl then said the car had a dodgy starter and asked if the cop could push-start them with his patrol car... Of course he could.

And some people wonder why young people don't learn, and then die on the roads...

Pull that here, and the car would've been crushed (hoon laws) and the guy in court with a minimum of 12 months loss of licence.

MikeAqua

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#2155769 7-Jan-2019 13:39

frankv:

Passing lanes may be where the congestion is visible, but the congestion is likely caused by a bottleneck further ahead (e.g. an intersection or road works), otherwise by the reduction to one lane at the end of the passing lane.

The utility of passing lanes seems to have been reduced by a general fear of exceeding the speed limit while passing. So you see people very slowly overtaking a slow vehicle, which is meanwhile accelerating. You end up with people cutting it finer and finer just to get past. The result can be chaos at the merge point.

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

Mike

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NzBeagle

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#2155772 7-Jan-2019 13:42

MikeAqua:

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

If only the slow vehicles staying in the left lane wouldn't do the same!

frankv

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#2155794 7-Jan-2019 14:02

NzBeagle:

MikeAqua:

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

If only the slow vehicles staying in the left lane wouldn't do the same!

It is illegal to accelerate when you are being passed. But, of course, enforcing this is too hard.

MikeAqua

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#2155873 7-Jan-2019 15:38

frankv:

It is illegal to accelerate when you are being passed. But, of course, enforcing this is too hard.

Yes, it would be nice to see this fecking annoying behaviour ticketed.

Technically you can't overtake someone who has temporarily sped up to 100 for the length of the passing lane. In practice I find that cops turn a blind eye to momentary application of jandal, provided your speed isn't unnecessarily fast YMMV though.

Mike

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#2155886 7-Jan-2019 15:58

NzBeagle:

MikeAqua:

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

If only the slow vehicles staying in the left lane wouldn't do the same!

I swear physics is being broken every time there is a campervan or laden vehicle in a New Zealand passing lane.
Quite frequently I do not know how but these jokers get their POS that can't even do 80 down a hill to 120-130KPH and you got to really open the petroleum flood gates to get past them.

Geektastic

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#2155950 7-Jan-2019 18:23

NzBeagle:
MikeAqua:

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

If only the slow vehicles staying in the left lane wouldn't do the same!

The reason is often, I think, that the road isn't fit for driving at 100 UNTIL the bit they turned into a passing lane because it was the only straight, safe part....!

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TinyTim

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#2155971 7-Jan-2019 19:59

Geektastic:
NzBeagle:

MikeAqua:

Personally I'm old school when it comes to passing ... chop it down a couple of gears and go.

If only the slow vehicles staying in the left lane wouldn't do the same!

The reason is often, I think, that the road isn't fit for driving at 100 UNTIL the bit they turned into a passing lane because it was the only straight, safe part....!

Yes, you don't get that problem on passing lanes on the Remutska Hill, which are not straight and safe.

frankv

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#2156061 8-Jan-2019 07:07

MikeB4:

frankv:

I believe that the fixed speed limit actually decreases road safety. In the absence of a speed limit, people have to judge for themselves what is safe and what is not. When a speed limit is set, people don't think about whether this is safe or not, they just drive at that speed. I believe that is the cause of the Montana Speed Limit Paradox where accidents decreased when speed limits were removed, and increased when they were reinstated.

The NZTA is locked into the same mindset: they put up signs saying "Reduce your speed to meet the conditions" but NOT "Increase your speed when conditions are good". The inherent assumption (and implied message) is that it's normal for people to drive at the speed limit.

The speed of a vehicle is only one factor affecting the safety of a vehicle at a particular point in time, but it is rigidly enforced. Because it is a very convenient and easy thing to detect, it has become the focus of enforcement activity. There's essentially no enforcement of vehicle following distances, for example, despite tailgating being a major cause of accidents. There's no law at all, let alone enforcement, around fatigue and sleep for car drivers, despite this being a major cause of accidents.

With the NZ attitude to driving and zero respect for other road users this would create absolute carnage. NZ drivers would see this as an open license to do as they pleased and bugger everyone else. I still cannot understand folks blindness to the FACT, the greater the speed the greater the mess. As I said earlier the speed may not always cause an incident but it makes avoiding it a whole lot harder and when the incident occurs the carnage is greater. It is not a hard concept to understand.

Our roads are barely up to managing 80kph safely let alone 100kph. Example we drove fraom Masterton to Castlepoint last week this a narrow road with one lane bridges, corners with sideroads and farm entrances hidden and a very uneven road surface, the post legal maximum is 100kph. The speed limit on this road should be 80kph or less.

I don't think NZers are hugely different from anywhere else.

I'm not advocating *no* speed limit. Just making the point that speed limits themselves may *decrease* safety.

Perhaps a variable speed limit, depending on conditions; say 100, or maybe 120, in perfect conditions. Then subtract 5kph for wet road or 10kph for rain, 20kph for fog, 5 for heavy traffic, 10 for night time, 20 for for narrow road, 10 for uneven surface, 10 for gravel, etc. So an empty motorway on a fine day has a speed limit of 120, but a country road in the rain has a limit of 80.

trig42

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#2156131 8-Jan-2019 08:45

frankv:

MikeB4:

Passing lanes contribute a lot to congestion especially over peak periods.

I disagree. Traffic congestion is caused by traffic level exceeding the capacity of a bottleneck, whereas passing lanes clear the mobile bottlenecks of trucks and horse floats.

Passing lanes may be where the congestion is visible, but the congestion is likely caused by a bottleneck further ahead (e.g. an intersection or road works), otherwise by the reduction to one lane at the end of the passing lane. If there was no passing lane, there would be just as many cars in the tailback, which would extend twice as far. In a single lane, each car moves twice as fast, so there's an illusion of better progress, but it takes just as long to get through the queue.

(I knew there had to be a use for the queueing theory I learnt 40-odd years ago!)

I don't disagree.

SH2 coming from Thames towards Auckland last week.

Heavy traffic, but moving at 80-90kph (speed limit on this road is 90 for most of it), which is fine.

Get to the passing lane after Maramarua (which is a 100km/h limit) and where the passing lane goes from two lanes back to one, traffic is stopped. Not helped by the asshats who then drive up the right lane to join the congestion at the merge point, because everyone in the left lane has stopped. These people are the problem, and the passing lane has caused it. After getting through this choke point, no further congestion on the road. If they closed one of the lanes (or like a few did in this case, drove down the middle of the two lanes to stop people overtaking), this would not have happened.

clevedon

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#2156192 8-Jan-2019 10:04

trig42: SH2 coming from Thames towards Auckland last week.

Heavy traffic, but moving at 80-90kph (speed limit on this road is 90 for most of it), which is fine.

Get to the passing lane after Maramarua (which is a 100km/h limit) and where the passing lane goes from two lanes back to one, traffic is stopped. Not helped by the asshats who then drive up the right lane to join the congestion at the merge point, because everyone in the left lane has stopped. These people are the problem, and the passing lane has caused it. After getting through this choke point, no further congestion on the road. If they closed one of the lanes (or like a few did in this case, drove down the middle of the two lanes to stop people overtaking), this would not have happened.

That's why I always take the Coast Rd around past Miranda to avoid all that drama.

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