EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1954042 9-Feb-2018 09:12

frednz:
Some people on FB have recently commented that AA Insurance is "struggling to price and place EV cover" (J P Hale). For example, N Rees said that "I was with AA for my Leaf but recently I upgraded to the BMW i3 and AA wouldn't cover it so had to move to State Insurance".

I wonder why insuring an EV would be a problem if it's no problem insuring a petrol vehicle?

Possibly there isn't a bank of data on costs to repair EV in NZ or official manufacturer support and the AA doesn't want to take risk of losing money on insurance premiums, while other insurers have different opinion.

My insurer didn't bat an eyelid with my leaf. (profession insurer not general public)

wellygary

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#1954056 9-Feb-2018 09:36

frednz:

Some people on FB have recently commented that AA Insurance is "struggling to price and place EV cover" (J P Hale). For example, N Rees said that "I was with AA for my Leaf but recently I upgraded to the BMW i3 and AA wouldn't cover it so had to move to State Insurance".

I wonder why insuring an EV would be a problem if it's no problem insuring a petrol vehicle?

I Suspect it is not the EV bit being the issue ( as you say they covered his leaf). It is that the i3 is a hideously bespoke vehicle,

It has a Carbon fibre frame, and lots of Carbon fibre reinforced plastic body panels,

I simply suspect that the cost of repairing these is very expensive compared to the value of the vehicle, so it simply too much of a risk for a small insurer like AA to take on....

MikeAqua

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#1954058 9-Feb-2018 09:38

afe66:
frednz:

Some people on FB have recently commented that AA Insurance is "struggling to price and place EV cover" (J P Hale). For example, N Rees said that "I was with AA for my Leaf but recently I upgraded to the BMW i3 and AA wouldn't cover it so had to move to State Insurance".

I wonder why insuring an EV would be a problem if it's no problem insuring a petrol vehicle?

Possibly there isn't a bank of data on costs to repair EV in NZ or official manufacturer support and the AA doesn't want to take risk of losing money on insurance premiums, while other insurers have different opinion.

My insurer didn't bat an eyelid with my leaf. (profession insurer not general public)

If it's a car available new in NZ then surely they can price replacement with new and work back from there.

Most insurance companies are underwritten internationally, so they must have access via actuaries or underwriters to data on repair costs (relative to replacement cost) from other countries.

If the car isn't available new, perhaps that could be more difficult.

Mike

tripper1000

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#1954144 9-Feb-2018 11:00

Maybe they are a little slow and the car simply isn't in their computer system yet so you get the old "computer says no" from the call centre drone.

In the past I've had minor issues insuring new (to New Zealand) Toyota's when the model hasn't been in their index - there was nothing overly exotic about the car, it just wasn't in their systems. They eventually insured it as a similar model of the same spec's and I had no trouble making claims later in the piece.

If minor dings were known to result in total write-offs due to the carbon fibre construction, surely they'd simply quote inflated premiums to reflect the increased financial risk. It is just a numbers game and they can make money insuring anything if you're willing to pay premiums that correspond to the risk.

afe66

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#1954154 9-Feb-2018 11:16

MikeAqua:
afe66:
frednz:

Some people on FB have recently commented that AA Insurance is "struggling to price and place EV cover" (J P Hale). For example, N Rees said that "I was with AA for my Leaf but recently I upgraded to the BMW i3 and AA wouldn't cover it so had to move to State Insurance".

I wonder why insuring an EV would be a problem if it's no problem insuring a petrol vehicle?

Possibly there isn't a bank of data on costs to repair EV in NZ or official manufacturer support and the AA doesn't want to take risk of losing money on insurance premiums, while other insurers have different opinion.

My insurer didn't bat an eyelid with my leaf. (profession insurer not general public)

If it's a car available new in NZ then surely they can price replacement with new and work back from there.

Most insurance companies are underwritten internationally, so they must have access via actuaries or underwriters to data on repair costs (relative to replacement cost) from other countries.

If the car isn't available new, perhaps that could be more difficult.

Yes that's what I mean. The leaf isn't available new here and Nissan NZ not support them. (although this is going to change with 2018 as Nissan has listed an official roll-out and Nissan in chch is selling current model too)

Aredwood

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#1954327 9-Feb-2018 13:39

wellygary:
I simply suspect that the cost of repairing these is very expensive compared to the value of the vehicle, so it simply too much of a risk for a small insurer like AA to take on....

AA insurance is just a brand. They simply resell Suncorp policies. Suncorp is the company behind Vero insurance.

And State insurance is one of the IAG insurance brands.

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#1955684 12-Feb-2018 13:03

If anyone in or around Lower Hutt wants to see a Tesla Model S and X in the flesh, they are currently on display in Queensgate Shopping Centre

wellygary

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#1955698 12-Feb-2018 13:38

DjShadow:

If anyone in or around Lower Hutt wants to see a Tesla Model S and X in the flesh, they are currently on display in Queensgate Shopping Centre

New Oldsmobiles are in early this year, - sorry its all that I can think about whenever I see car retailers in malls, :)

MikeAqua

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#1955892 12-Feb-2018 16:51

happyfunball:

MikeAqua:

Moved from leaf thread

They [national govt] spent that [$8B] on roads, which everyone can use - including EV owners

.... trucking companies actually pay to use roads

Yes and they would love EV trucks. Cut fuel costs and maintenance? No brainer.

I think the case for EV trucks is actually stronger than that of cars. In 5 years we'll see them everywhere.

For something like a light urban delivery truck - perfect and will reduce air pollution too. A guy I know in Nelson just bought one for his dry cleaning business. He is doing minimal km and carrying a very light load too.

Range is still an issue for trucks outside city areas. For moving stock or logs or line hauling freight on state highways - forget it. Or you would require swap-out battery units or just swapping traction units (like formula-e).

Trucking companies tend to work their trucks hard, because margins are low so you need volume. A single truck driver is allowed to drive for up to 13 hours in a day - and many do. That equates to a daily range of something like 900km, with GCM of up to 50 Tonnes. Then you need to consider additional power for secondary plant like refrigeration.

BTW addressing grade by improving highways would help by removing some of the heavy braking burden.

Mike

happyfunball

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#1956026 12-Feb-2018 21:18

MikeAqua:

For something like a light urban delivery truck - perfect and will reduce air pollution too. A guy I know in Nelson just bought one for his dry cleaning business. He is doing minimal km and carrying a very light load too.

Range is still an issue for trucks outside city areas. For moving stock or logs or line hauling freight on state highways - forget it. Or you would require swap-out battery units or just swapping traction units (like formula-e).

Trucking companies tend to work their trucks hard, because margins are low so you need volume. A single truck driver is allowed to drive for up to 13 hours in a day - and many do. That equates to a daily range of something like 900km, with GCM of up to 50 Tonnes. Then you need to consider additional power for secondary plant like refrigeration.

BTW addressing grade by improving highways would help by removing some of the heavy braking burden.

It will be years until we see it here, but the Tesla semi (version 1.0) claims 500 mile range and 400 miles in 30 minutes of charging. Factor in lower maintenance costs, lower fuel costs, and you have more profitable truck.

It only works if you have the infrastructure though, but since trucks are so important and trucking affects the prices of almost everything else we consume, it makes sense for this infrastructure to be kick-started by the government. If you can lower trucking costs you provide a boost to the whole economy.

Aredwood

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#1956091 13-Feb-2018 01:23

MikeAqua:

happyfunball:

MikeAqua:

Moved from leaf thread

They [national govt] spent that [$8B] on roads, which everyone can use - including EV owners

.... trucking companies actually pay to use roads

Yes and they would love EV trucks. Cut fuel costs and maintenance? No brainer.

I think the case for EV trucks is actually stronger than that of cars. In 5 years we'll see them everywhere.

For something like a light urban delivery truck - perfect and will reduce air pollution too. A guy I know in Nelson just bought one for his dry cleaning business. He is doing minimal km and carrying a very light load too.

Range is still an issue for trucks outside city areas. For moving stock or logs or line hauling freight on state highways - forget it. Or you would require swap-out battery units or just swapping traction units (like formula-e).

Trucking companies tend to work their trucks hard, because margins are low so you need volume. A single truck driver is allowed to drive for up to 13 hours in a day - and many do. That equates to a daily range of something like 900km, with GCM of up to 50 Tonnes. Then you need to consider additional power for secondary plant like refrigeration.

BTW addressing grade by improving highways would help by removing some of the heavy braking burden.

Actually braking is not a problem for EVs - even large and heavy ones like semi trucks. Due to regenerative braking.

And Nationals spending on roads has helped to reduce air pollution. (less vehicles stuck in traffic, less idling engines wasting fuel and emitting CO2 needlessly). And of course better productivity.

Then there is the contrary view - Since running an EV is far cheaper than running an ICE car, it removes alot of the incentive to take public transport instead of driving in a private car. (more-so since EVs can use some of the T2 onramp lanes). And when autonomous cars become more common, Instead of driving to work, parking at work, then driving home. You will drive to work, tell your car to drive itself home and park there, Then have your car drive itself back to your work, and pick you up again. (Double the distance per day - double the average number of cars on the roads) Or if you only need to be somewhere for a short time. You will get your car to drop you off, your car will keep on driving round the block by itself, until you are ready to be picked up again. (as paying for the electricity of fuel usage will often be cheaper than paying for parking). So in the medium to long term, it is likely that far more roading investment will be required.

As well as disrupting the business model used by Wilsons parking, and the income stream that airports make from parking.

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happyfunball

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#1956098 13-Feb-2018 06:12

Aredwood:

Then there is the contrary view - Since running an EV is far cheaper than running an ICE car, it removes alot of the incentive to take public transport instead of driving in a private car. (more-so since EVs can use some of the T2 onramp lanes). And when autonomous cars become more common, Instead of driving to work, parking at work, then driving home. You will drive to work, tell your car to drive itself home and park there, Then have your car drive itself back to your work, and pick you up again. (Double the distance per day - double the average number of cars on the roads) Or if you only need to be somewhere for a short time. You will get your car to drop you off, your car will keep on driving round the block by itself, until you are ready to be picked up again. (as paying for the electricity of fuel usage will often be cheaper than paying for parking). So in the medium to long term, it is likely that far more roading investment will be required.

As well as disrupting the business model used by Wilsons parking, and the income stream that airports make from parking.

Autonomous cars are supposed to decrease traffic because most traffic is caused by bad driving, not too many cars on the road. We could fit a lot more cars on the road if there were less hunting for parking (25% of Urban traffic is caused by people looking for parking spots), adaptive cruise control (cuts out tailgating), and many other driver errors. So even with more cars on the road, you'll get there faster. Its counter-intuitive but models show traffic will improve dramatically. Less car ownership (taxis are now much cheaper with no driver) means less cars parked on the side of the road.

Also, take away the buses (transport will be so much cheaper and no parking needed) and you'll have extra lanes.

frankv

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#1956107 13-Feb-2018 07:02

MikeAqua:

Range is still an issue for trucks outside city areas. For moving stock or logs or line hauling freight on state highways - forget it. Or you would require swap-out battery units or just swapping traction units (like formula-e).

Seems to me that line-haul trucks could use some of the trailer for large batteries, which could be readily swapped out.

How big would a battery need to be to run a large truck for 6 or 12 hours?

shk292

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#1956126 13-Feb-2018 08:43

happyfunball:

Autonomous cars are supposed to decrease traffic because most traffic is caused by bad driving, not too many cars on the road. We could fit a lot more cars on the road if there were less hunting for parking (25% of Urban traffic is caused by people looking for parking spots), adaptive cruise control (cuts out tailgating), and many other driver errors. So even with more cars on the road, you'll get there faster. Its counter-intuitive but models show traffic will improve dramatically. Less car ownership (taxis are now much cheaper with no driver) means less cars parked on the side of the road.

Also, take away the buses (transport will be so much cheaper and no parking needed) and you'll have extra lanes.

Presumably, the law of supply and demand will also apply to parking buildings - ie, Wilsons etc won't want empty parking buildings while autonomous cars circulate waiting for their owners, so will reduce prices to make parking more desirable.

Also on parking, there are usually plenty of suburban streets with free parking around, which would be ideal for an autonomous car to go and park in while the owner is at work

MikeAqua

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#1956128 13-Feb-2018 08:51

frankv:

Seems to me that line-haul trucks could use some of the trailer for large batteries, which could be readily swapped out.

How big would a battery need to be to run a large truck for 6 or 12 hours?

I'm sure they could, but keep in mind that adds weight which means they can carry less freight.

Mike

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