Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Should cyclists pay road taxes ?

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 22

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2718486 5-Jun-2021 07:20

I guess we need to visit taxing footpaths as they are provided free and should be paid for. And obviously EV's need to be paying RUC. And charge cyclists.

Why don't we? Because its either stupid or its a means to drive behaviour to a cleaner environment and a healthier population.

fearandloathing

537 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 206

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2718506 5-Jun-2021 08:51

Should children be entitled to be covered by ACC, they don’t pay ACC levies?

Batman

Mad Scientist
30014 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6217

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2718512 5-Jun-2021 09:20

sir1963:
antonknee:

Wow what a thread, and started on a ridiculous proposition. Was the OP stuck in traffic this morning as a bike whizzed past congestion-free and so now has a vendetta against cyclists?

The simple answer is sir1963’s plan is unworkable, but thankfully it’s also unnecessary. Cycling is cheaper than driving - end of (take into account infrastructure, societal costs, health outcomes, climate change, congestion, cost of a bike vs car).

In any case, we don’t have user pays for everything in this country and if we did - it wouldn’t be cyclists footing the big bills.

Disclosure - haven’t ridden a bike for transport since I was about 10.

I actually use public transport, and walk, which is still 100% irrelevant to if cyclists should help pay for the infrastructure they benefit from.

Cycleways are additional infrastructure, not instead of. Even if 100% of people cycled, it would not change the need roads.

And the plan is NOT unworkable.

Currently motorists contribute $4 Billion in fees/taxes/etc for roading. This is on top of ordinary taxes/rates.

If Cyclists think 2% of roading going to cycleways is too low, perhaps they would like to contribute $80 Million per year in fees which would be 2% of 4 Billion.

I don't think we are a capitalist country. More socialist. Capitalist - you pay for everything. Socialist - Some will pay for others and some will receive, for the benefit of the whole.

Reminds me of university days. The stupid Union was not happy that everybody paid 100 bucks a year. For that 100 bucks everybody gets free Internet free social club activities free gym free everything. Then the union said but I don't use Internet. Make it user pay what they want. You want Internet you pay you don't want Internet you don't pay. So the following year : Internet fees 120 bucks. Gym 120. Clubs and societies 80 bucks etc etc etc. Yet we could have just paid the 100 bucks and get everything.

ermat

178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19

#2718513 5-Jun-2021 09:22

Anyone else notice how little resistance the police applied to the bridge protesters last week?
Call me cynical but I would not be surprised if the powers that be were complicit in allowing the protest to take place.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19071 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16318

Lifetime subscriber

#2718514 5-Jun-2021 09:42

Wow. This is the kind of subject that really gets people going. What strikes me is how so many (presumably car drivers) seem to see cyclists as part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

New Zealand used to be a public transport country, at least in the cities, but increased prosperity and poor policy-making turned us car-centric as all the tram rails were ripped up in favour of bigger and better roads. As a result, people today can’t seem to see further than the front of their SUVs as they spend their time in gridlocked traffic jams.

Coming from Europe, I have a slightly different perspective on this. Holland in particular is a cycling country, as are some others. There are very few transport needs that cannot be met by cycling. Anyone who thinks you have to have a car to get your kids to school has never seen the Dutch! Part of what makes that possible is a well-developed cycling infrastructure, like separated lanes and dedicated bridges(!), but a big part is also just a different mentality. People here need to get a little less self-centred about this.

There are very few actual urban needs that can only be met by vehicle transport. Many Dutch city-dwellers do have cars, though finding places to park them can be difficult and expensive, but most only use them on weekends to transport their bikes out to the countryside. Daily commutes are nearly all by cycle, and this in a country where it rains a whole lot more than it does here, never mind the wind and freezing winter temperatures.

Undoubtedly there are greater needs here than an Auckland cycle bridge and I’m not sure that is the best use of the money, but it is ridiculous that there is no way for cyclists and pedestrians to get across the harbour. That is a past policy failure that needs to be rectified. Maybe a way can be found to make users of that particular facility contribute to the cost, but this should not be a standard policy. Cyclists should not be penalised for doing something that benefits everyone.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1145

#2718570 5-Jun-2021 11:23

ermat: Anyone else notice how little resistance the police applied to the bridge protesters last week?
Call me cynical but I would not be surprised if the powers that be were complicit in allowing the protest to take place.

Well yes - they were denied permission to do it, but authorities acknowledge it was going to happen anyway and therefore it may as well happen safely. Hence there was a traffic management plan and so on in place. Complicit? Not really, just a pragmatic, practical approach.

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2718576 5-Jun-2021 12:03

tdgeek:

I guess we need to visit taxing footpaths as they are provided free and should be paid for. And obviously EV's need to be paying RUC. And charge cyclists.

Why don't we? Because its either stupid or its a means to drive behaviour to a cleaner environment and a healthier population.

Take away footpaths and watch the economic activity drop in that area. This leads to :

Drop in GST

Drop in property values/rates.

Rates include costs for footpaths because practically everyone uses them, pedestrians, cyclists, motorists , even if they only walk from shop to shop, or to a bus.

The same argument goes for roads.

And EVs are also non polluting.

Eva888

2763 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2429

Lifetime subscriber

#2718579 5-Jun-2021 12:07

Holland is the flattest country in Europe so lends itself to cycling. Wellington as an example has steep hills with very little flat area. Cycling here is suitable for the fit and youthful with a small smattering of middle aged and above participating.

Roads and cycleways should be proportional to the demographic health and geography of each place. Why spend millions on cycleways that will be used by a small overall proportion of a city’s population to benefit a minority and not the majority. Why not spend money to suit some of the other demographics. In Europe and even in poorer countries you see parks with gym equipment available to everyone free.

No amount of extolling the virtues of cycling or building cycleways will entice the elderly, the handicapped, the chronically ill, the obese, the blind, the weak, the unlicensed etc, etc to use a facility that they are unable to. Therefore health and age demographics plus geography are important considerations before spending millions that could be more equitably used to favour all groups of society and not just the fittest.

Another factor not often talked about are the possible negative health effects of cycling on males as there is an association of low sperm count and poor sperm motility among those cycling over five hours a week and an increased potential for Prostate Cancer because of the pressure on the area.

I think cyclists over 18 should be licensed and pay a levy.

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2718580 5-Jun-2021 12:16

fearandloathing: Should children be entitled to be covered by ACC, they don’t pay ACC levies?

That analogy would only be true if we had a seperate system for children.

Cycleways are in addition to footpaths and roads, they also cost a lot of money.

Where they are along side roads, its like adding a 3rd lane.

alasta

6891 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3365

Trusted

Subscriber

#2718584 5-Jun-2021 12:29

Rikkitic:

Coming from Europe, I have a slightly different perspective on this. Holland in particular is a cycling country, as are some others. There are very few transport needs that cannot be met by cycling.

Out of interest, how does this work for people who can't ride a bicycle? I imagine the alternative is to walk, but as a pedestrian I would feel quite intimidated by large mobs of cyclist shooting past me at high speed. Are the cycleways well separated from pedestrian paths?

elpenguino

3577 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2939

#2718590 5-Jun-2021 12:33

alasta:
Rikkitic:

Coming from Europe, I have a slightly different perspective on this. Holland in particular is a cycling country, as are some others. There are very few transport needs that cannot be met by cycling.

Out of interest, how does this work for people who can't ride a bicycle? I imagine the alternative is to walk, but as a pedestrian I would feel quite intimidated by large mobs of cyclist shooting past me at high speed. Are the cycleways well separated from pedestrian paths?

Yes

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

elpenguino

3577 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2939

#2718592 5-Jun-2021 12:37

Eva888: Holland is the flattest country in Europe so lends itself to cycling. Wellington as an example has steep hills with very little flat area. Cycling here is suitable for the fit and youthful with a small smattering of middle aged and above participating.

That's actually not true. The e bike levels hills and negates head winds.
I see lots of middle aged people riding their e bikes home to karori

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2718593 5-Jun-2021 12:39

Batman:

I don't think we are a capitalist country. More socialist. Capitalist - you pay for everything. Socialist - Some will pay for others and some will receive, for the benefit of the whole.

Reminds me of university days. The stupid Union was not happy that everybody paid 100 bucks a year. For that 100 bucks everybody gets free Internet free social club activities free gym free everything. Then the union said but I don't use Internet. Make it user pay what they want. You want Internet you pay you don't want Internet you don't pay. So the following year : Internet fees 120 bucks. Gym 120. Clubs and societies 80 bucks etc etc etc. Yet we could have just paid the 100 bucks and get everything.

Sure, problem is cycleways are for cyclists , they are additional.

Cyclists also use roads, also use footpaths.

Most pedestrians and motorists do not use cycle paths.

motorists contribute about $4Billion extra towards roads, cyclists contribute $0 Extra.

SomeoneSomewhere

1882 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1086

Lifetime subscriber

#2718596 5-Jun-2021 12:47

sir1963:

Batman:

I don't think we are a capitalist country. More socialist. Capitalist - you pay for everything. Socialist - Some will pay for others and some will receive, for the benefit of the whole.

Reminds me of university days. The stupid Union was not happy that everybody paid 100 bucks a year. For that 100 bucks everybody gets free Internet free social club activities free gym free everything. Then the union said but I don't use Internet. Make it user pay what they want. You want Internet you pay you don't want Internet you don't pay. So the following year : Internet fees 120 bucks. Gym 120. Clubs and societies 80 bucks etc etc etc. Yet we could have just paid the 100 bucks and get everything.

Sure, problem is cycleways are for cyclists , they are additional.

Cyclists also use roads, also use footpaths.

Most pedestrians and motorists do not use cycle paths.

motorists contribute about $4Billion extra towards roads, cyclists contribute $0 Extra.

Please see my above post. Motorists contribute about $1.8b extra, not four. The remaining $3.2b of national road funding comes from your taxes and mine. So as long as the cycle spending is less than 60% of transport funding, corrected for ridership, they don't need to pay any more.

Add local government funding to this, too.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19071 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16318

Lifetime subscriber

#2718598 5-Jun-2021 12:50

sir1963:

Sure, problem is cycleways are for cyclists , they are additional.

Cyclists also use roads, also use footpaths.

Most pedestrians and motorists do not use cycle paths.

motorists contribute about $4Billion extra towards roads, cyclists contribute $0 Extra.

This is blinkered thinking, as well as incorrect. As has already been pointed out in this thread, cyclists make a substantial contribution, by not being in cars.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1 | ... | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | ... | 22