is lack of heatpump a deal breaker if you live in the deep south?

tims:

 

I'm seriously considering the LR RWD as I will be towing a lightweight caravan (around 1100kg) and couldn't find another EV that had the towing capability I need and still get the clean car rebate.

 

To those that have ordered,  has anyone been offered capped service fees by the dealer and if so how much?

 

Cheers

 

The polestar 2 has a 1600kg tow rating too, and both the standard and long range 2wd are cheap enough to get the rebate.

But personally I think the RV6 LR RWD is a more attractive offering for that duty for many reasons:

• RWD, rather then FWD.
• Much longer wheebase
• More luggage space
• 230v power outlet in the back seat.
• Faster DC fast charging
• Not made in china

That faster DC charging could be a big deal given that towing something big can reduce range by half, or two thirds. Obviously 530km range is a great starting point on that front though.

Batman:

 

is lack of heatpump a deal breaker if you live in the deep south?

 

Short answer: Not a deal breaker given the LR car's having ranges around the 500km mark, but does mean you will get about 25km less road trip range in winter than if the car was fitted with a heat pump.

First thing to note is that the Non heat pump EV6's have a "Inner Condenser (HVAC)" what exactly this is I am not sure, but I am guessing that it is a condenser (hot finned thing) that comes after the evaporator (cold finned thing) inside the cabins ventilation system, perhaps to allow the Air conditioning system to reject heat into the cabin, at times when it is chilling something (battery? Cabin for de-humidification purposes?), but heat is called for in the cabin. But lacks the access to a external evaporator to run as a heat pump? - This may mean the EV6 does better than other non heat pump fitted cars (like the BMW i3)

A bunch of reading online confirms that there is definitely a difference between a heat pump car and a "inner condenser" car. On the ionic 5 (which is very similar), you can visually check the differnce by counting wires where depicted below. 3 wires is an inner condenser car, 4 is a heat pump car.

Source: https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/how-to-check-for-presence-of-heat-pump.39078/page-2

To get back to the main point, I located an evaluation of the climate control energy consumption in a non heat pump EV6 vs a heat pump fitted kona, in a 0c - 3c enviroment.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/non-heat-pump-car-vs-heat-pump-power-usage-comparison.165506/

Non heat pump EV6 used 1.1 - 1.5kW of power (after the first 30km).

Heat pump Kona used 0.5 - 0.7kW

So a touch over double the energy spent on cabin heating in the EV6 without the heat pump (and also with a larger cabin).

For the 240km / 3 hour trip :

Non heat pump EV6: 3.9kWh (21km range)

Heat pump Kona: 1.8kWh (10km range)

Concusion:

Heatpump Car saves 2.1kw[h] or about 7 miles [11km] range on a 150 mile [24km] motorway run in 0c to 3c Weather.

In terms of power cost, that 2.1kWh is likely not a big deal, especially in south-land where power is cheap. An extra 40cents ? 

But not having the heat pump will cost about 5% range in near freezing vs a car that does have one. Possibly also not a big deal given the 530km rated range of the LR RWD EV6.

Kia is far from the only brand holding back heat pumps. For example VW had this to say for the Irish market:

We asked Volkswagen about this, as its popular ID.3 and ID.4 models are conspicuous in offering a heat pump only as an expensive, €1,142, optional extra. “The efficiency is mainly noticed when exterior temperatures are less than zero degrees Celsius. Due to Ireland’s temperate climate - annual averages range from 7 - 19 degrees Celsius - the benefits of a heat pump may not be realised versus a colder climate, such as found in Scandinavia for example” said a VW spokesperson in response.

“The heat pump is available as an optional extra on the ID.3 and ID.4 and it is standard on the ID.4 Max and ID.4 GTX Max trimlines. and we currently have a take-up rate of approximately two per cent in Ireland on this feature.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/why-your-new-ev-should-have-a-heat-pump-1.4685898

https://jalopnik.com/hyundai-and-kias-coolest-evs-recalled-for-rolling-when-1848943028

might be relevant?

So, how many people of automatic transmission ICEs park their vehicles and rely on putting it in “P” and not applying the park brake? There’s probably some, but it is bad practice and has been ever since there have been automatic transmissions.

The article describes a software fault but Hyundais have to go to the dealer for the fix, Kias can “park on a flat surface”, until I presume, they can receive an OTA software update.

Scott3:

 

Interesting to note that the 52L frunk on the RWD models has been revised down to 20L.

 

https://kia.co.nz/vehicles/kia-ev6/range-and-specifications/

Wonder if this is a spec sheet only change, to prevent loss of up-sales to people put off by the smaller Frunk on AWD trims, and the RWD still gets the 52L frunk, or if a design change has been made that compromises the capacity of the RWD Frunk.

 

I wonder if it's a moulding change on the panels used to keep costs down - Frunk get's smaller, due to it not being uniquely for the RWD models anymore - and under it is a void. 

Dingbatt:

 

So, how many people of automatic transmission ICEs park their vehicles and rely on putting it in “P” and not applying the park brake? There’s probably some, but it is bad practice and has been ever since there have been automatic transmissions.

 

The article describes a software fault but Hyundais have to go to the dealer for the fix, Kias can “park on a flat surface”, until I presume, they can receive an OTA software update.

 

My RAV4 Hybrid has an electronic park brake that engages as soon as I throw it in park. 

It makes parking in my wife's car (and my son's) interesting, as I am now in the habit of not pulling on a handbrake. And I am supposed to be teaching my son to drive!! 

Dingbatt:

 

So, how many people of automatic transmission ICEs park their vehicles and rely on putting it in “P” and not applying the park brake? There’s probably some, but it is bad practice and has been ever since there have been automatic transmissions.

 

The article describes a software fault but Hyundais have to go to the dealer for the fix, Kias can “park on a flat surface”, until I presume, they can receive an OTA software update.

 

You are correct use of both park gear and the parking brake is best practice.

However when I was in the USA, Park gear only is absolutely standard when you claim your car from a valet parking stand.

I think both will require a dealer fix. Don't know if Hyundai / Kea have over the air software updates. But suspect even for brands that do, tweaking the software of the parking break control system is no something you would want to be able to be updated over the air for safety reasons if the OTA security of the car happened to be compromised.

Both the temporary solutions are to stop the car from rolling away if the parking prawl fails. 

Handsomedan:

 

Scott3:

 

Interesting to note that the 52L frunk on the RWD models has been revised down to 20L.

 

https://kia.co.nz/vehicles/kia-ev6/range-and-specifications/

Wonder if this is a spec sheet only change, to prevent loss of up-sales to people put off by the smaller Frunk on AWD trims, and the RWD still gets the 52L frunk, or if a design change has been made that compromises the capacity of the RWD Frunk.

 

 

I wonder if it's a moulding change on the panels used to keep costs down - Frunk get's smaller, due to it not being uniquely for the RWD models anymore - and under it is a void. 

 

If there was a void under it, it would require another part to connect to the lower attachment points of the shorter RWD front stack.

And would be be a lot of space to give up for such a minor (if any) cost saving.

Especially given the R&D for the 52L frunk is suck, an they need to keep the part available of other markets like the UK where they are still offering the 52L frunk.

UK spec sheet:

https://www.kia.com/content/dam/kwcms/kme/uk/en/assets/vehicles/EV6/Specification/Kia%20EV6%20Spec%20Sheet%20May%202021.pdf

52L:

20L:

Strongly suspect the RWD will still be getting the larger Frunk, and the number on the spec sheet is either an error, or a deliberate undersell to encourage more people to buy the AWD versions.

Scott3:

 

Spec sheet is out.

 

https://kia.co.nz/vehicles/kia-ev6/range-and-specifications/

 

In short it's good.

 

Only important thing I can see missing is a heat pump.

 

Had a look at one yesterday at Morrinsville Kia.  Nice car but the $106 grand price list was a real put off.  Even the Air Long range at $79 Grand was outside my price range.  Hey lets just do what everyone else does.  just put it on the mortgage.. 

@CookiePuncher the Outlander is not an EV6. Please keep on topic.

Dingbatt:

 

So, how many people of automatic transmission ICEs park their vehicles and rely on putting it in “P” and not applying the park brake? There’s probably some, but it is bad practice and has been ever since there have been automatic transmissions.

 

The article describes a software fault but Hyundais have to go to the dealer for the fix, Kias can “park on a flat surface”, until I presume, they can receive an OTA software update.

 

Good point - there should always be two reasons why something bad won't happen.  So when parking you should have at least two of: in Park, park brake on or on a flat surface.

Relying on a single point of failure to avert an accident is never good practice

I had a test drive in an EV6 yesterday - it was the AWD version.  Hard for me to compare, having never driven an EV before, but the smooth delivery of power and effortless acceleration made it a great car to drive.  I wasn't keen on the synthesised interior "engine hum" but I guess that's able to be turned off on a menu somewhere.  After being used to driving reasonably sporty cars (currently a Cerato GT which is 200hp), the EV6 definitely feels a step up in terms of real-world performance.  Although it sits somewhere between a saloon and an SUV, I think the driving position is just right for visibility without the high CoG that SUVs have - I prefer it to the lower position of the Tesla M3.  Interior comfort was great, including rear seat space.  The boot is long and wide but quite shallow - the larger "frunk" in the RWD version would certainly be useful.

I know it's personal taste, but I preferred the more "car-like" interior to that of the Tesla - the latter just seems too minimalist to me.

I swung by the Newmarket Kia dealership again today.

As an unexpected surprise, they had a EV6 Air LR sitting in the showroom.

Was in matt grey, which is quite a nice looking color (but I still think forrest green is my favorite).

The showroom car had the larger RWD frunk size (not the 20L that is now on the spec sheet), which was good to see. - actually a decent amount of space to be useful.

Regarding the heat pump discussion prior:

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=295561&page_no=8#2916177

 Adding to my confusion, this car has the 4 wire (heat pump) configuration discussed prior.

Could also hear some compressor running (very slowly) under the bonnet when in heating (and not A/C mode)

Only unusual thing I spotted was the AC outlet being fitted with a UK socket. Salesperson said this was an NZ spec car, so assume this was a (likely easily fixed) build error.

@CookiePuncher

Welcome to geekzone, I see this is your first post. Don't get put off by the other poster shutting down your question, but forums do work better if peoples stay on the topic of the thread.

Feel free to go to https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162 and to hit the New topic button. This will allow you to select a title that suits the content you want to discuss. Perhaps "New Shape Outlander PHEV", Or "Cira $50k plug in car shopping"