Petition to reduce EV RUCs

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Petition to reduce EV RUCs

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Mad Scientist
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#3203514 5-Mar-2024 21:35

Scott3:To give an example of the impact, VW has just announced they are no longer going to offer the ID.4 in NZ, and are clearing the their remaining stock at a $20k discount (25%). This is likely them dumping stock at a loss, something which will make them very cautious about offering new BEV models in NZ again.

heh i was offered 35% off a delivery mileage EV, unfortunately i have no use for that vehicle and i still needed to pay 90k which is not something i'm prepared to do!

i told the sales person, can you go lower because the Tesla is cheaper!

snj

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#3203523 5-Mar-2024 23:09

The law backing the changes is now in Select Committee and open for consultation (until Thursday 12pm - yes it's short, but it's similar to other legislation pushed through quickly such as the gun rule changes): https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/make-a-submission/document/54SCTIN_SCF_60F18385-F31E-4C3E-1DBA-08DC38A90C66/road-user-charges-light-electric-ruc-vehicles-amendment

Would probably have to come up with a convincing legal argument to get it changed though since it's now at this stage.

Wheelbarrow01

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#3203538 6-Mar-2024 00:06

Wheelbarrow01:

I think the petitioner forgets that RUC is not a dirty fuel tax, it's a road/infrastructure tax. If anything, all this petition will do is highlight to the government that the petrol exise tax is clearly not high enough...

In light of yesterday's news from the govt, it appears the above comment I made several days ago may well have been on point 🤣

SaltyNZ

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#3203596 6-Mar-2024 08:44

networkn:

SaltyNZ:

It really can't be clearer from the sales figures that the major driving factor in the sudden drop in EV sales was the removal of the Clean Car Discount scheme.

So far what I have seen from fairly consistently out of this entire thread is that people buy EV's because they have no RUC, or if fellow taxpayers subsidize them. It's not exactly painting the prettiest pictures of EV owners.

Perhaps the real problem is that EV's don't present value at their current FULL prices. That seems to be something that either the buyers, or the sellers need to sort out, not the taxpayer.

Neither RUCs nor discounts factored into my original decision to buy my first EV. I'm perfectly happy to pay RUCs, but they either need to be applied to all vehicles (my preference) or if they aren't - thus making them in some sense "unfair" - then the unfairness needs to not be directed in such a way as to make buying fossil fuel burners seem more attractive.

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networkn

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#3203600 6-Mar-2024 08:55

SaltyNZ:

Neither RUCs nor discounts factored into my original decision to buy my first EV. I'm perfectly happy to pay RUCs, but they either need to be applied to all vehicles (my preference) or if they aren't - thus making them in some sense "unfair" - then the unfairness needs to not be directed in such a way as to make buying fossil fuel burners seem more attractive.

You are clearly and obviously an outlier in your view to buy EV's without those two incentives based on the table you showed.

How long have EV's not paid RUC's to date? How long will it take at the proposed rate for that imbalance to be corrected?

ockel

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#3203612 6-Mar-2024 09:31

Interesting to see in the RIS that a partial RUC rate for PHEV's was already planned for by the previous Govt. And that the refund's for PHEV's was only until legislation on partial rates was passed (Nov 24). I did not realise that.

From https://www.transport.govt.nz//assets/Uploads/EV-RUC-redacted-for-web.pdf

The previous government agreed to mitigate this by amending the Road User
Charges Act 2012 (the RUC Act) to allow for the establishment of a partial rate for
PHEVs (likely between $50-$60 per 1000km). If you agree to progress a partial rate,
the standard legislative timeframe would see it enacted in November 2024. The table
below provides an indicative process and timeframe for passing that Bill.

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wellygary

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#3203664 6-Mar-2024 09:55

ockel:

Interesting to see in the RIS that a partial RUC rate for PHEV's was already planned for by the previous Govt. And that the refund's for PHEV's was only until legislation on partial rates was passed (Nov 24). I did not realise that.

Yip, and when they voted on the first reading yesterday Labour supported it ,
Only the Green and Maori Party voted against it ..

"A party vote was called for on the question, That the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.
Ayes 102
New Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.

Noes 20
Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te Pāti Māori 6.

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#3203693 6-Mar-2024 11:37

networkn:

How long have EV's not paid RUC's to date?

umm ... 1886?

michaelmurfy

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#3203698 6-Mar-2024 12:06

Batman:

networkn:

How long have EV's not paid RUC's to date?

umm ... 1886?

"The light EV RUC exemption was introduced in 2016 by then transport minister Simon Bridges to help encourage EV uptake"

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Scott3

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#3203700 6-Mar-2024 12:10

networkn:

...

How long have EV's not paid RUC's to date? How long will it take at the proposed rate for that imbalance to be corrected?

Since 2009. (prior to that EV's were not exempt from RUC's)

I disagree with the premise of your second question. EV's were exempt from RUC's to encourage uptake. This goal has now been achieved (~ 2% of the fleet is EV).

The past is in the past. There is no need to claw back the past RUC exemption by charging EV's more than efficient petrol vehicles in the future.

Scott3

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#3203703 6-Mar-2024 12:18

michaelmurfy:

"The light EV RUC exemption was introduced in 2016 by then transport minister Simon Bridges to help encourage EV uptake"

That was an extension.

The light EV RUC exemption was introduced in 2009 by then Environment Minister Nick Smith

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michaelmurfy

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#3203704 6-Mar-2024 12:25

Scott3: The light EV RUC exemption was introduced in 2009 by then Environment Minister Nick Smith

You're right. I couldn't actually find the original bill due to the noise from EV RUC's as of late on the internet. I do remember Gavin Shoebridge (https://www.facebook.com/KiwiEVadventures ) paid RUC's when he built his first EV back in the day.

Edit: here we go: https://kiwiev.com/the-original-kiwi-ev-conversion/ - you can even see the RUC sticker.

GV27

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#3203754 6-Mar-2024 12:45

networkn:

So far what I have seen from fairly consistently out of this entire thread is that people buy EV's because they have no RUC, or if fellow taxpayers subsidize them. It's not exactly painting the prettiest pictures of EV owners.

I didn't realise people objecting to being told the solution to an unfair cross-subsidy was an unfair cross-subsidy in the other direction is somehow magically fairer was an indication of some sort of character flaw.

olivernz

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#3204733 9-Mar-2024 09:03

Basically we should be incentivising the heck out of EV's and you should be for it even if you drive a petrol car. Amongst others because....

1) EVs will be the future (yes, you heard that right Hydrogen) so why not get started early?

2) A newer car fleet have higher safety standards saving injuries and lives making ACC cheaper in the long run, benefiting everyone.

3) EVs incentivise electricity retailers to do their part in extending the infrastructure we all need. Once P2V comes along vehicles will also help in stabilising our grid.

4) EVs are a big factor in what NZ needs to do to achieve climate goals. It's one of the cheapest ways for govt to do this. Other incentives come out of the tax budget and cost a heap more.

5) We need billions of US $ to import petrol and diesel for our cars each year. This costs us as a nation. Electricity is produced locally and keeps our $$$ within our borders stimulating the economy.

Personally I couldn't care less about RUC or not. What I want to see is a CO2 tax on everything but especially all vehicles. It should be on the type of car and the fuel it uses. Even electricity generated by Gas/Coal/Oil. Put the incentives where they belong not where the lobby groups are and things will sort themselves. Long term public transport is the answer but we need a vehicle (oh the pun) to finance that. A CO2 tax would be ideal.

networkn

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#3204776 9-Mar-2024 13:17

You know what would have a bigger impact than all the EVs and tree planting in the world? Population control. Less people achieve all of the above in far greater numbers by magnitude. It's all very socially unacceptable though, isn't it? Instead let's build more infrastructure to support more people, both of which are high emissions.

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