Hybrid cars, and which ones are available these days

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#2856138 25-Jan-2022 15:20

You're right, the Sorento is too big for me. I was just curious to run the numbers and see the real world benefit.

My CX-5 has only done 30,000km and it doesn't get daily use, so no need to replace it now. I think I'll keep it another couple of years and by then the market will have shifted a bit.

gzt

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#2856281 25-Jan-2022 18:52

RobDickinson: Highway driving is about the worst for hybrids I think, a constant energy use situation isnt really helped by any of the hybrid stuff.

I'm not sure this correct. Most highways have inclines and declines and require occasional braking. I commuted 90km per day for a few years over a 50/50 mix of uncontrolled rural roads and motorway with the usual morning city traffic jam at the end. My XW20 Prius did not deviate from it's rated 4.2l per 100km during that time in normal circumstances. I initially measured this with gas station receipts for a year. The dash gave exactly the same reading.

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#2856431 26-Jan-2022 08:30

Are you braking for inclines??

Unless its a steep decline you are just letting off the gas a little right?

RUKI

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#2858631 30-Jan-2022 18:52

alasta:
I currently have an AWD CX-5 and, given the increasing cost of fuel, I was wondering if there is something equivalent available as a hybrid. As I understand it, these are the only options available from mainstream manufacturers:

RAV4 : Ugly, with cheap looking interior.

Outlander/Eclipse Cross : Only available as a plug-in hybrid. Probably only suitable for people who can charge at home as the heavy battery creates a lot of dead weight if you use it only as a standard hybrid.

Are there any others that I'm missing?

I am regularly converting CX-5 Instrument clusters and head units to English, hence familiar with the car.
Recently converted Instrument Clusters in these hybrids, you may wish to try, photos of the car at the start of the video:
- Toyota Auris
https://youtu.be/rpqgDDBcmcI
- Honda Vezel (one of those had super leather interior which was much better than in many CX-5)
https://youtu.be/zKi87aXmgTo

gzt

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#2858685 30-Jan-2022 19:26

@quickymart Thought I'd mention as a taller bloke I actually prefer the XW20. The next model group has a massive centre console space shuttle thing meaning there's no horizonal leg room on a medium or longer drive. The import Alpha comes without that type of thing too. I find the Fielder on the small side.

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#2858747 30-Jan-2022 20:27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW20)

This one?

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gzt

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#2858845 30-Jan-2022 20:46

That's the one. That's not a good looking picture on Wikipedia. I'm almost 100% sure extended production in Japan continued to at least 2011 . Wikipedia seems to think it was only produced in China after 2009. Personally never heard of a china made XW20 in NZ.

alasta

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#2858846 30-Jan-2022 20:49

RUKI:
alasta:

Are there any others that I'm missing?

I am regularly converting CX-5 Instrument clusters and head units to English, hence familiar with the car.
Recently converted Instrument Clusters in these hybrids, you may wish to try, photos of the car at the start of the video:
- Toyota Auris
https://youtu.be/rpqgDDBcmcI
- Honda Vezel (one of those had super leather interior which was much better than in many CX-5)
https://youtu.be/zKi87aXmgTo

These don't appear to be sold in New Zealand.

Anyway, I think I'll stick with the CX-5 for the foreseeable future. I don't really use it a lot, and now is not a great time to be buying a new car given the supply chain problems.

RUKI

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#2858862 30-Jan-2022 22:49

gzt: That's the one. That's not a good looking picture on Wikipedia. I'm almost 100% sure extended production in Japan continued to at least 2011 . Wikipedia seems to think it was only produced in China after 2009. Personally never heard of a china made XW20 in NZ.

Correct reference for Japanese import would be NHW-20, 2004-2009 - 1.5L engine
Next Prius was ZVW-30, made from 2010 and had 1.8L engine
Batteries are identical in both - 28 modules each.

Fun fact: Prius C has 1.5L engine and 20-module battery and engine from Prius C can be used as a replacement in NHW-20 with a bit of fiddling with water pump.

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#2859086 31-Jan-2022 11:06

RobDickinson: Highway driving is about the worst for hybrids I think, a constant energy use situation isnt really helped by any of the hybrid stuff.

While hybrids get amazing fuel economy in traffic, they still more than hold their own on the highway...

As an example:

Hybrid Rav4 / Non hybrid / CX5 2.5L AWD:

kW: 163 / 127 /140

Urban L/100km: 5.0/ 7.1 /9.2

Extra Urban: 4.8 / 5.4 / 6.3

Combined: 4.8 / 6.0 / 7.4

As you can see, the rav4 hybrid comfortably beats the non hybrid cars in the extra-urban test cycle, but the difference is more dramatic in the urban cycle.

alasta:

Anyway, I think I'll stick with the CX-5 for the foreseeable future. I don't really use it a lot, and now is not a great time to be buying a new car given the supply chain problems.

Counter perspective, is that now is actually a great time to buy a new car. Prices haven't moved a lot on new car's, but have increased substantially on newish Used cars. So if you are fine with a 6 - 9 month wait on popular models (like Rav4 hybrid), upgrading frequently to new cars can be a financially sensible play under the current market conditions.

I know you don't like the Rav4 hybrid offering, but I will use it as an example.

One of the cheapest Rav4 hybrid's on trade-me is a 2019 GX with towbar 38,700km, asking $44,500, and "rock bottom seller will accept of $43k (58 people on watch-list).

Brand new Rav4 GX hybrid (sept 2022 delivery) is $45,990 driveaway (Plus $1124.43 for the towbar).

If I owned a 2019 Rav4 Hybrid, I would sure be putting in an order for a new one. Cira $4k - $5k to upgrade to a brand new car. No scrapes & scuff's, get whatever the latest design tweaks are from toyota (1st year cars of a new generation often have minor bugs that get worked out), get 2 more years warranty coverage. Brand new tires & other consumables like wiper blades.

But to answer you original question, there is not really anything directly comparable to the CX-5 from other makers. Key issue is that in NZ Mazda offers brilliant value (given the multi thousand dollar discount that a family member got by phoning around dealers when buying their cx-5). Also other cars in the segment tend to offer 1.5T braked towing, vs the 1.8T on the Cx-5.

Toyota is by far the market leader in the (non plug in) hybrid space. So if you don't like their Rav4 offering, you would need to settle for a much lesser power to economy ratio from other brands. And I think the criticisms are fair.

Could step up to a lexus NX350h, which has a lot in common with the Rav4 with a much better interior, but then you are paying $93k, and requiring premium fuel.

RUKI

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#2859426 31-Jan-2022 17:12

alasta:
These don't appear to be sold in New Zealand.;

These models, I.e. Auris Hybrid and Vezel Hybrid are sold in numbers in New Zealand.
The photo in both videos are actual photos of actual cars which have been sold in Auckland 😉

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#2860886 2-Feb-2022 22:44

I have brought 4 hybrids in the past 6 years.

Lexus RX450h, Lexus ES300h, Lexus GS450h and a Camry Hybrid for the in-laws.

They are all solid cars. I would recommend looking at Lexus over Toyotas for the interior and additional refinement and finesse.

MikeAqua

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#2861061 3-Feb-2022 09:38

RobDickinson: Highway driving is about the worst for hybrids I think, a constant energy use situation isnt really helped by any of the hybrid stuff.

A while back I swapped my Pajero for my father's hybrid Camry for a three week holiday around Auckland, Northland and Coromandel. Mostly highway driving and it used 5L/100km. Not in economy mode at any time.

Mike

Jaxson

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#2881229 8-Mar-2022 15:30

RobDickinson:

Highway driving is about the worst for hybrids I think, a constant energy use situation isnt really helped by any of the hybrid stuff.

Used to think that, but hybrids (toyota at least) use the Atkinson cycle engine, which is rather gutless at launch speeds but sufficient and very economical at open road speeds. It's the perfect pairing for electric to get the vehicle moving and then efficient petrol to take over after that.

We've been debating a different car for several years, and will be very sad to see the Mazda MPV boot space go for our camping trips especially, but the Prius and Outlander PHEV models are really getting our attention now with the cost of fuel. Would be looking around the 2012 mark I expect given our budget.

Were the batteries on either of these era vehicle actively cooled?
That's been a continued theme amongst the full electric discussions, and one of the down points for the early leafs.

RUKI

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#2881298 8-Mar-2022 16:34

Jaxson: ........>Were the batteries on either of these era vehicle actively cooled?
That's been a continued theme amongst the full electric discussions, and one of the down points for the early leafs.

The batteries in Toyota Hybrids utilizing NiMh batteries are air cooled (variable fan speed).

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