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Topic # 126845 22-Jul-2013 10:14
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I just read this article about how Toyota is being taken to the cleaners because someone can't work out how to stop a car, but there is a line in there :


the 66-year-old bookkeeper did everything she could to slow down, stepping on the brake pedal and pulling the emergency handle as she swerved to avoid hitting other vehicles.

"emergency handle" ??  Is that what they think the handbrake/parking brake is ?  If she pulled that while doing 100mph then yes I'm not surprised she crashed and died!

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  Reply # 863386 22-Jul-2013 10:17
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Uhh yes, the handbrake is also known as the "emergency brake".  Using it as a last resort is a sensible measure.  I'd have probably tried to put the car in neutral, however I don't know what lockouts exist.

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  Reply # 863402 22-Jul-2013 10:29
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If you're commenting on an article how about linking to that article.




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  Reply # 863405 22-Jul-2013 10:32
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timmmay: If you're commenting on an article how about linking to that article.


I knew there was something missing!  hehehehe



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  Reply # 863408 22-Jul-2013 10:37
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Turning the key off should be pretty high up the list of things to do if the car has problems. Behind that put it in neutral. People might not think of that in an emergency.




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  Reply # 863411 22-Jul-2013 10:42
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timmmay: Turning the key off should be pretty high up the list of things to do if the car has problems. Behind that put it in neutral. People might not think of that in an emergency.


From what I remember, assuming this was the stuck throttle incident... the Toyota in question didn't have a key but a start/stop button.  Pressing it doesn't turn off the engine unless you're stopped.  Apparently holding it in for 10s or something would do it, but how you'd know that (or think to try) is a mystery.

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  Reply # 863424 22-Jul-2013 11:08
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timmmay: Turning the key off should be pretty high up the list of things to do if the car has problems.


Then you lose the power assistance on the steering and brakes which is the last thing you want in an emergency. With the ignition off I suspect features like airbags and electronic stability control would also deactivate.

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  Reply # 863448 22-Jul-2013 11:33
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Fair point. Neutral would be a better idea then.




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  Reply # 863449 22-Jul-2013 11:33
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alasta:
timmmay: Turning the key off should be pretty high up the list of things to do if the car has problems.


Then you lose the power assistance on the steering and brakes which is the last thing you want in an emergency. With the ignition off I suspect features like airbags and electronic stability control would also deactivate.


Brakes should still have enough vacuum stored up to assist a stop.  
Power Steering .. depends on the type ... but in most cases if engine is turning (even if ignition is off) will continue to operate (eg. engine braking).
ABS/ESC and so on I'm not so sure on, but airbags and other restraint systems should operate if needed, regardless.

Still taking the car out of gear, if possible (which it damn well should be), would be your best bet if it starts to rev uncontrollably.  Turn it off when you've stopped safely.

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  Reply # 863456 22-Jul-2013 11:42
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Yes, in the US (and some other places) what we call the handbrake is regularly referred to as the emergency brake or e-brake.




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  Reply # 863458 22-Jul-2013 11:43
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timmmay: Turning the key off should be pretty high up the list of things to do if the car has problems. Behind that put it in neutral. People might not think of that in an emergency.


It is strongly advised NOT to do this in an emergency. You often shut off vital systems designed to help you in an emergency (Especially in modern cars). Even if the accelerator got stuck to the floor, the cars brakes should have enough power to bring you to a stop, however putting the car into Neutral is a good idea, especially if really need to stop in a hurry.

The handbrake is much more likely to cause a lock up. In most cars, ABS can't work with the handbrake on, and the handbrake usually locks the rear wheels only (great way to spin out, or even roll the vehicle). If you have to use the handbrake, it should be applied slowing and gradually, and at as low a speed as possible.




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  Reply # 863490 22-Jul-2013 12:32
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Not to mention turning off the key locks the steering.. all in all a REALLY bad idea. Also pulling on the handbrake is a very bad idea as it will lock up the rear wheels causing loss of control. Putting the car into neutral would be the best option in this case.







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  Reply # 863492 22-Jul-2013 12:36
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Nety: Not to mention turning off the key locks the steering.. all in all a REALLY bad idea. 


Only locks the steering if you remove the key from the ignition.

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  Reply # 863497 22-Jul-2013 12:46
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Off topic-on topic, the Lawyer is pretty clearly abusing the media to get the jury convinced it was a manufacturing fault ahead of the trial. The wording for that article may as well have come from his desk.

Noriko Uno was afraid of driving fast, often avoiding the freeway and taking the same route every day

"Toyota decided to make safety an option instead of a standard on their vehicles,"

"Imagine her strapped into her Toyota Camry driving 100 mph knowing the next move would be fatal," he said. "She saved many lives by veering off into that center median knowing that death was near."


Looks like it is not the first time it has happened in the US though, so it is unlikely to go Toyota's way.




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  Reply # 863507 22-Jul-2013 12:53
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Skid Control should be mandatory (as should defensive driving courses) in order to get a license in NZ.

My kids will be required to do both regardless of what the law says.

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  Reply # 863544 22-Jul-2013 13:22
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Emergency handle!
Sounds like the stories of little old ladies in days gone by that used to think the choke knob was a pull out hanger for their handbags!

That said my late grandmother used to drive her Honda Civic automatic with her left foot resting on the brake - despite my father telling her off about it. Of course one day she had an accident - sounds like she tried to stop in a hurry and stood on both pedals!!!

From the article : "Toyota has denied the allegation and neither the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration nor NASA found evidence of electronic problems." Makes me think the car was actually ok.

My guess is the driver has stood on both pedals in a panic and just kept panicking.




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