Have you ever bought a second-hand electric car? Would you?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Have you ever bought a second-hand electric car? Would you?

BenTM

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#295655 12-Apr-2022 15:10

Like 90% of NZ's population, I am not in a position to buy a new car, but would be keen to get away from petrol.

But, I've heard so many horror stories about failing batteries that it seems like there will never be a good second hand electric car market place.

If you've bought a second-hand electric, how did it go?

If you looked into it and decided against it, why?

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#2900428 12-Apr-2022 15:32

A large chunk of EV sales in NZ are used Nissan Leaf. I'd suggest checking out the dedicated Nissan Leaf thread here for more details on what to look out for when buying one. If your budget is higher than $25k than you have a few non-Leaf options.

I suspect the stories of failed batteries that you've heard about are Hybrids rather than EVs. EV batteries rarely fail - they just lose range.

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tchart

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#2900440 12-Apr-2022 15:39

Suggest watching this series on YouTube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii-iWkdTQ_8

Spoiler - guy buys cheap second hand Leaf and there are some good things and some bad things. The latest video he was saying he only gets 40 or 50 miles when its cold.

BenTM

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#2900445 12-Apr-2022 15:43

Obraik:

A large chunk of EV sales in NZ are used Nissan Leaf. I'd suggest checking out the dedicated Nissan Leaf thread here for more details on what to look out for when buying one. If your budget is higher than $25k than you have a few non-Leaf options.

I suspect the stories of failed batteries that you've heard about are Hybrids rather than EVs. EV batteries rarely fail - they just lose range.

Thank you. It is things like the graph on this post #2898564 that give me pause.

Obraik

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#2900449 12-Apr-2022 15:50

Again though, it's a loss of range. With the example of a 24kWh Leaf, a 12 year old car is down to around 75% capacity. At new it was 135km and now the average car that age has a max range around 100km. So the three questions to answer are how much range do you need from the car, how much budget do you have and how long do you intend on holding the car for?

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insane

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#2900453 12-Apr-2022 15:58

Obraik:
Again though, it's a loss of range. With the example of a 24kWh Leaf, a 12 year old car is down to around 75% capacity. At new it was 135km and now the average car that age has a max range around 100km. So the three questions to answer are how much range do you need from the car, how much budget do you have and how long do you intend on holding the car for?

And how much will you be able to sell it for when the range drops ever further?

Are there any depreciation curves for common EV models? Is there a big cliff / drop off after say 10 years?

I'm in the same boat as the OP, so very interested in this thread!

RobDickinson

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#2900459 12-Apr-2022 16:11

Yes I have..

Most of the non drivetrain bits are the same, suspension, brakes, interior etc etc

The drivetrain bit is different but you really have only to worry about the battery, the rest is almost indestructible, and for the battery you can usually find out exactly to a percentage point how well its doing, and often down to individual cells.

You get nowhere near the same level of info with a used fossil car.

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Obraik

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#2900460 12-Apr-2022 16:12

In reality, this concern really only applies to the Nissan Leaf, especially the earlier models as they have no battery thermal control. Heat is the greatest enemy of EV batteries.

If you have a budget of around $25-$30k then I'd highly recommend at looking at something like the legacy Ioniq or BMW i3 as they have thermal management and their degradation is almost nothing.

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BenTM

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#2900462 12-Apr-2022 16:18

Obraik:

Again though, it's a loss of range. With the example of a 24kWh Leaf, a 12 year old car is down to around 75% capacity. At new it was 135km and now the average car that age has a max range around 100km. So the three questions to answer are how much range do you need from the car, how much budget do you have and how long do you intend on holding the car for?

That's exactly the line of questioning – if I buy a 10 year old Leaf that has a range that has dropped by 75%, where will I be in 5 years' time? There are exactly two electric cars in my city for 10k or under, both are about 10 years old and both are Leafs. Do people see this market expanding in the next few years?

BenTM

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#2900485 12-Apr-2022 16:20

RobDickinson:

Yes I have..

Most of the non drivetrain bits are the same, suspension, brakes, interior etc etc

The drivetrain bit is different but you really have only to worry about the battery, the rest is almost indestructible, and for the battery you can usually find out exactly to a percentage point how well its doing, and often down to individual cells.

You get nowhere near the same level of info with a used fossil car.

A very good point. What did you buy, can I ask?

BenTM

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#2900510 12-Apr-2022 16:21

Obraik:

In reality, this concern really only applies to the Nissan Leaf, especially the earlier models as they have no battery thermal control. Heat is the greatest enemy of EV batteries.

If you have a budget of around $25-$30k then I'd highly recommend at looking at something like the legacy Ioniq or BMW i3 as they have thermal management and their degradation is almost nothing.

Interesting. I guess it may be some years before I can really consider going electric in any kind of real way then.

Obraik

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#2900511 12-Apr-2022 16:24

BenTM:

That's exactly the line of questioning – if I buy a 10 year old Leaf that has a range that has dropped by 75%, where will I be in 5 years' time? There are exactly two electric cars in my city for 10k or under, both are about 10 years old and both are Leafs. Do people see this market expanding in the next few years?

Every car is different, but if we use the graph you linked to then the average car will lose around 15% over 5 years, so you'd be down to around 80km of range at that point.

The second hand EV market is only going to expand as other EVs age. Those Ioniqs and i3's will get down to that sub-20k price and eventually sub-10k. At some point the influx of Model 3s will start getting down to that 10-20k range too. For the next couple years it's going to be heavily dominated by Leaf though.

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RobDickinson

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#2900515 12-Apr-2022 16:29

BenTM:

A very good point. What did you buy, can I ask?

I bought a used Outlander PHEV (and checked by PHEVWatchdog app + OBD2 dongle)

Obraik:

In reality, this concern really only applies to the Nissan Leaf

Leaf, Outlander, e-Golf, iMiev, probably missing a few, most new EVs have good active cooling and a lot of older ones have too.

I wouldnt worry about buying a used i3 (non rex) etc.

BenTM

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#2900516 12-Apr-2022 16:29

tchart:

Suggest watching this series on YouTube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii-iWkdTQ_8

Spoiler - guy buys cheap second hand Leaf and there are some good things and some bad things. The latest video he was saying he only gets 40 or 50 miles when its cold.

Did you catch this update? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lczuI_sBS-E

RUKI

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#2900547 12-Apr-2022 17:30

Not sure where did you get 90% from.
Your budget would limit your choice.
In any EV case you are looking at disposable car with faster than ICE depreciation rate.
Do your research what to check and how to check before buying.
P.S. You can buy driveable Leaf for $5k

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mattwnz

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#2900601 12-Apr-2022 18:00

RUKI: Not sure where did you get 90% from.
Your budget would limit your choice.
In any EV case you are looking at disposable car with faster than ICE depreciation rate.
Do your research what to check and how to check before buying.
P.S. You can buy driveable Leaf for $5k

I wonder if it will become cheaper to replace the batteries as the costs drop. IMO the manufacturers should be required to make it easier to replace them. Especially as all these manufacturers, especially phone manufacturers, even say that batteries are a consumable, and consumables obviously wear out and need replacing. IMO it is the number one issue with EVs now, as in all other areas they are now as good as, or better and ICUs, apart from price and batteries

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