Need some advice about a Scooter vs Car crash

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Need some advice about a Scooter vs Car crash

Stubbies

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#60600 28-Apr-2010 17:59

Hello everyone
Thank you in advance for any help received.

Situation: Traffic was virtually stationary along Shore Road and I was driving my scooter west (between victoria ave and burwood cres) along the medium strip when a car attempting to do a U turn pulled out in front of me causing me to skid and crash into the front of her car. They were indicating but I didn't see until too late.

Does the fact that I was in the medium strip put me at fault? or should she have looked before she pulled out?

Anyones advice would be great and maybe if someone could point me in the right direction for finding info in the road code or something similar that I can reference when discussing it

Thanks
Stubbies..

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253 posts

Ultimate Geek

Geekstore

#324357 28-Apr-2010 18:31

By my understanding (but I could be wrong) the person doing the U-turn has to give way to any traffic on the road, if you were on the medium strip turning right, you are still in that line of traffic.

I think that you're in the right by my judgment.

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rscole86

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#324359 28-Apr-2010 18:47

A little more information if you could?

Why were you on the median strip, were you indicating, what speed were you travelling?

At this stage, I would say you are to blame.

For more information, refer to this, at the bottom of the page it explains proper use of a median strip.

Aaroona

3190 posts

Uber Geek

#324365 28-Apr-2010 18:57

rscole86: A little more information if you could?

Why were you on the median strip, were you indicating, what speed were you travelling?

At this stage, I would say you are to blame.

For more information, refer to this, at the bottom of the page it explains proper use of a median strip.

That was the conclusion I came too as well.

Stubbies

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#324366 28-Apr-2010 19:04

I was using it to pass the stationary queue of cars.

I used this advice from scootersurvival
"Let’s face it, getting to the front of a whole line of cars can feel pretty good. And it is OK to pass stationary vehicles, provided you indicate before pulling out and don’t cross over a yellow line. Just be careful not to knock a car wing mirror on your way past. It’s not OK, however, to pass on the extreme left."

So I didn't want to pass on the left and all the cars were close to the middle of the road so I couldn't get past without using the medium strip.

But what I was thinking is that, even if I was doing something wrong by using it to pass cars, the fact that I could have been using it to turn right makes her at fault as well for not looking. So both of us are at fault?

Dratsab

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#324381 28-Apr-2010 19:58

Stubbies: Does the fact that I was in the medium strip put me at fault?

According to the way you described yourself using it, yes.

should she have looked before she pulled out?

Yes but...

They were indicating but I didn't see until too late.

...she possibly did look but you may not have been in her line of vision and, going back to the first point, you shouldn't have been there. How long had she been indicating for?

Proper usage of a median strip is depicted as per the link rscole86 posted.

phire

22 posts

Geek

#324385 28-Apr-2010 20:09

Quite simply, you are not allowed to ride over a flush median during a passing maneuver. There is actually an explicit example of this about 3/4 of the way down this page: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/passing.html

Stubbies

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#324386 28-Apr-2010 20:11

Thanks for the replys everyone.

I don't know how long she had been indicating, only noticed after she pulled out. If she had looked in her wing mirror she would have seen me

rscole86

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#324389 28-Apr-2010 20:26

Ultimately, based on your description, you are in the wrong.

No matter how you argue it, and what scooter guide you refer to, the NZTA set down the rules of the road. And in this case, you have broken it, and been unfortunate in being involved in an accident in the process. I ride motorbikes, and do as you do, but have never had an accident, its just the risk we take.

"Let?s face it, getting to the front of a whole line of cars can feel pretty good. And it is OK to pass stationary vehicles, provided you indicate before pulling out and don?t cross over a yellow line. Just be careful not to knock a car wing mirror on your way past. It?s not OK, however, to pass on the extreme left."

What you have to realise, is that this is just 'advice' they will have a legal disclaimer in there for sure. Also, you were not pulling out and passing stationary cars, eg going over a white line, you were entering a section of road and not using it how it is intended.

Filterer

489 posts

Ultimate Geek

#324396 28-Apr-2010 21:05

rscole86: Ultimately, based on your description, you are in the wrong.

No matter how you argue it, and what scooter guide you refer to, the NZTA set down the rules of the road. And in this case, you have broken it, and been unfortunate in being involved in an accident in the process. I ride motorbikes, and do as you do, but have never had an accident, its just the risk we take.

"Let?s face it, getting to the front of a whole line of cars can feel pretty good. And it is OK to pass stationary vehicles, provided you indicate before pulling out and don?t cross over a yellow line. Just be careful not to knock a car wing mirror on your way past. It?s not OK, however, to pass on the extreme left."

What you have to realise, is that this is just 'advice' they will have a legal disclaimer in there for sure. Also, you were not pulling out and passing stationary cars, eg going over a white line, you were entering a section of road and not using it how it is intended.

I am too a motocyclyist and happily break this rule many many times a day. I disagree with your conclusion - although the road code specifies that this is illegal and the police could fine you for this the cause of the accident was the driver failing to properly ensure the path was clear before starting a u-turn.

Imigaine if instead the scotter rider was driving their car down a bus lane in a car rather than the median, although this would be 'illegal' it would still have been the fault of the car doing the u-turn

pɐǝɥ sıɥ uo ƃuıpuɐʇs

Aaroona

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#324397 28-Apr-2010 21:11

Filterer:
rscole86: Ultimately, based on your description, you are in the wrong.

No matter how you argue it, and what scooter guide you refer to, the NZTA set down the rules of the road. And in this case, you have broken it, and been unfortunate in being involved in an accident in the process. I ride motorbikes, and do as you do, but have never had an accident, its just the risk we take.

"Let?s face it, getting to the front of a whole line of cars can feel pretty good. And it is OK to pass stationary vehicles, provided you indicate before pulling out and don?t cross over a yellow line. Just be careful not to knock a car wing mirror on your way past. It?s not OK, however, to pass on the extreme left."

What you have to realise, is that this is just 'advice' they will have a legal disclaimer in there for sure. Also, you were not pulling out and passing stationary cars, eg going over a white line, you were entering a section of road and not using it how it is intended.

I am too a motocyclyist and happily break this rule many many times a day. I disagree with your conclusion - although the road code specifies that this is illegal and the police could fine you for this the cause of the accident was the driver failing to properly ensure the path was clear before starting a u-turn.

Imigaine if instead the scotter rider was driving their car down a bus lane in a car rather than the median, although this would be 'illegal' it would still have been the fault of the car doing the u-turn

I agree you do make a valid point. However the cyclist was still not abiding by the law. For all we know yes, the lady could have looked, but missed the cyclist, however, had he not been breaking the law in the first place, it wouldnt have happened to begin with. Furthermore, the rider admits she was indicating, so there is also the possiblity that they (the rider) weren't paying attention either.

Though, on a more personal note. The way motorcyclists do this really pisses me off. I don't believe it's fair and they shouldn't do it, and quite often than not, they become a hazard which I have found while driving during peak-hour traffic. But that's just me.

EDIT: Added a wee bit more.

lapimate

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Ultimate Geek

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#324398 28-Apr-2010 21:12

This http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html#uturn says the car driver must make sure "the road is clear in both directions", so isn't that contributory negligence? Maybe both drivers are committing offences?

rscole86

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#324399 28-Apr-2010 21:20

Filterer: I am too a motocyclyist and happily break this rule many many times a day. I disagree with your conclusion - although the road code specifies that this is illegal and the police could fine you for this the cause of the accident was the driver failing to properly ensure the path was clear before starting a u-turn.

Imigaine if instead the scotter rider was driving their car down a bus lane in a car rather than the median, although this would be 'illegal' it would still have been the fault of the car doing the u-turn.

I agree with what you say, and both of them would be likely to receive a fine. Both would get $150 fines for what they did. But, for who is at fault here? I would still say that the fault is on the scooter rider here.

Buttonmash

361 posts

Ultimate Geek

#324401 28-Apr-2010 21:24

If it was a vote I'd say the car driver is at fault. They are crossing lanes they MUST make sure it's clear before they do.

Lane filtering scooters or bicycles aren't exactly uncommon, and you should look for them.

Filterer

489 posts

Ultimate Geek

#324402 28-Apr-2010 21:27

Aaroona:
Though, on a more personal note. The way motorcyclists do this really pisses me off. I don't believe it's fair and they shouldn't do it,

Most definitly not a valid argument! They don't slow you down, in fact if anything they REDUCE the traffic on the road and get YOU to your destination sooner

Aaroona:
And quite often than not, they become a hazard which I have found while driving during peak-hour traffic. But that's just me.

Perhaps a fair point - depending on the point of view - however perhaps it is your presence on the road creating the hazard for the motorcyclist?

pɐǝɥ sıɥ uo ƃuıpuɐʇs

rscole86

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#324403 28-Apr-2010 21:28

lapimate: This http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/turning.html#uturn says the car driver must make sure "the road is clear in both directions", so isn't that contributory negligence? Maybe both drivers are committing offences?

While this is correct, the car driver was entering a section of road that should NOT be used by through traffic. A road user should only enter it to make a turn into a side street, as per our links. The OP was riding through, and has not told us the speed at which he was riding. If the car making the u-turn looked, checked blind spot and pulled out, and the scooter rider was riding at an 'excessive' speed then it could still fall to the scooter ride at fault.

A car using a median, to turn into a side street, should not need any more than 100m of lane, especially if the traffic is at a standstill. Any more than that, and they are illegally using a median stip.

Disclaimer: I am not a Police Officer.

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