Israel Folau saga.

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#2265078 26-Jun-2019 14:52

surfisup1000:

As for your claim that most people agree with you... how on earth could you ever know that? Folau has received significant support and raised a lot of money for his cause. Speculation does you no credit.

The support he gets is from like minded churches, some hard right politicos. The general public I see little support as most don't have a gay hate mindset. Those that do, they can support him, we live in 2019 now

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#2265092 26-Jun-2019 15:04

tdgeek:

I dont feel you support his tweets, but that you support that all of his tweets are religious beliefs. Thats fine

Annecdotally, there seems a feel here that most see him wrong, in the medai, the same, Thats what I see

I said that Folau has a case to argue that his freedom of religion was breached. That is quite different from me saying that I personally support that argument.

Those two things are entirely different. Can you see that?

I am more interested in the legal argument side of this, as opposed to his particular views.

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#2265096 26-Jun-2019 15:15

He has no case to argue. His freedom of religion has not been breached. He is entirely free to don a sackcloth, give away his worldly possessions, take a vow of poverty and wander the streets calling upon sinners to repent.

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#2265104 26-Jun-2019 15:28

This is also a very good piece of writing from an ethical (not necessarily legal) perspective.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-25/israel-folau-crowdfunding-free-speech-simon-longstaff-analysis/11245082?pfmredir=sm

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#2265105 26-Jun-2019 15:29

surfisup1000:

tdgeek:

I dont feel you support his tweets, but that you support that all of his tweets are religious beliefs. Thats fine

Annecdotally, there seems a feel here that most see him wrong, in the medai, the same, Thats what I see

I said that Folau has a case to argue that his freedom of religion was breached. That is quite different from me saying that I personally support that argument.

Those two things are entirely different. Can you see that?

I am more interested in the legal argument side of this, as opposed to his particular views.

I think I already stated that you support his case that he has had his religious beliefs affected. I dont, thats all

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#2265107 26-Jun-2019 15:50

Whats the story on the 100k donated by ACL to Folau?

Is there any issue with the fact that these funds may be generated through a tax exempt account because of the church's tax status? Does this mean that the Australian tax payer is actually funding his legal case? Not sure of the details and laws, but seems a bit fishy.

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#2265176 26-Jun-2019 17:01

tyronne:
Whats the story on the 100k donated by ACL to Folau?

Is there any issue with the fact that these funds may be generated through a tax exempt account because of the church's tax status? Does this mean that the Australian tax payer is actually funding his legal case? Not sure of the details and laws, but seems a bit fishy.

Yes, is Folau a charity?

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#2265233 26-Jun-2019 18:33

The problem with discussions like this is that they promote a narrative where homosexuals are under attack from both sexuals and christians. From what I've seen, the reality is that sexuals are actually very protective of homosexuals and therefore the conflict is really between sexuals+homosexuals versus christians.

If you look at it from that perspective then it's the christians who are the vulnerable minority, and I can't help worrying about how some of this narrative may be affecting christians who are not as confident and outspoken as Israel Falou. They are probably the ones who are contributing towards what now seems to be a whopping sum of money.

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#2265235 26-Jun-2019 18:37

alasta:
The problem with discussions like this is that they promote a narrative where homosexuals are under attack from both sexuals and christians. From what I've seen, the reality is that sexuals are actually very protective of homosexuals and therefore the conflict is really between sexuals+homosexuals versus christians.

If you look at it from that perspective then it's the christians who are the vulnerable minority, and I can't help worrying about how some of this narrative may be affecting christians who are not as confident and outspoken as Israel Falou. They are probably the ones who are contributing towards what now seems to be a whopping sum of money.

I can’t see that. One reads the Bible and takes it all as fact even though it’s ancient and even though like discrimination we also don’t condone rape and other crimes even though the Bible can. We can read the Quran and decide what acts on 2019 are now not acceptable.

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#2265236 26-Jun-2019 18:39

tdgeek:
tyronne:

Whats the story on the 100k donated by ACL to Folau?

Is there any issue with the fact that these funds may be generated through a tax exempt account because of the church's tax status? Does this mean that the Australian tax payer is actually funding his legal case? Not sure of the details and laws, but seems a bit fishy.

Yes, is Folau a charity?

Does a charity have to give to another charity?

Or does a charity just have to spend the money to achieve the purpose they were set up for?

Half way down page "Charity watchdog alerted to new page."

https://www.radiosport.co.nz/sport-news/rugby/israel-folau-posts-new-message-as-christian-lobby-calls-on-australian-prime-minister/#ath

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#2265243 26-Jun-2019 19:37

alasta:

The problem with discussions like this is that they promote a narrative where homosexuals are under attack from both sexuals and christians. From what I've seen, the reality is that sexuals are actually very protective of homosexuals and therefore the conflict is really between sexuals+homosexuals versus christians.

If you look at it from that perspective then it's the christians who are the vulnerable minority, and I can't help worrying about how some of this narrative may be affecting christians who are not as confident and outspoken as Israel Falou. They are probably the ones who are contributing towards what now seems to be a whopping sum of money.

What is a "sexual"?

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#2265246 26-Jun-2019 19:45

alasta:

If you look at it from that perspective then it's the christians who are the vulnerable minority, and I can't help worrying about how some of this narrative may be affecting christians who are not as confident and outspoken as Israel Falou. They are probably the ones who are contributing towards what now seems to be a whopping sum of money.

If you're determined to play the victim card, you'll find a way to play it.

I suspect most Christians aren't total loons and don't tend to forget the whole 'Do unto others' bit as quickly as some others.

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#2265248 26-Jun-2019 19:52

rugrat:

tdgeek:
tyronne:

Whats the story on the 100k donated by ACL to Folau?

Is there any issue with the fact that these funds may be generated through a tax exempt account because of the church's tax status? Does this mean that the Australian tax payer is actually funding his legal case? Not sure of the details and laws, but seems a bit fishy.

Yes, is Folau a charity?

Does a charity have to give to another charity?

Or does a charity just have to spend the money to achieve the purpose they were set up for?

Half way down page "Charity watchdog alerted to new page."

https://www.radiosport.co.nz/sport-news/rugby/israel-folau-posts-new-message-as-christian-lobby-calls-on-australian-prime-minister/#ath

This charity gives to support

"The company's long-term objective is to advance Christianity by seeing Christian principles and ethics influencing the way Australia is governed, does business and relates as a community," its summary of activities says."

So telling gays to go to hell is Christian principles and ethics and so on. Scott Morrison is deeply religious, interesting toes where that goes. Those that see Folau as a bigot are apparently activists.

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#2265275 26-Jun-2019 20:57

alasta:
The problem with discussions like this is that they promote a narrative where homosexuals are under attack from both sexuals and christians. From what I've seen, the reality is that sexuals are actually very protective of homosexuals and therefore the conflict is really between sexuals+homosexuals versus christians.

If you look at it from that perspective then it's the christians who are the vulnerable minority, and I can't help worrying about how some of this narrative may be affecting christians who are not as confident and outspoken as Israel Falou. They are probably the ones who are contributing towards what now seems to be a whopping sum of money.

I am very sorry that you feel you are being ganged up on for telling people who are genetically different from you that they will suffer an eternity of pain and suffering. You and all Christian should be able to threaten eternal pain to all those who don't believe as you do.

Those poor Christians so alone with their churches and Sunday sermons and Sunday schools so alone and unsupported.

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tdgeek

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#2265298 26-Jun-2019 21:04

I would like to know what the thoughts are from the general christian community. The church going public, who I would have thought have their faith, are aware of the Bible, and who want happiness and doing good unto others. The average church going christian if you will. Many people are aware of the changes in human society. Its 2019 now. Id like to think that the Folau element are extremists. Leaving most church going christians as lovely people with open hearts.

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