Formula 1 2021 Season Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#2746837 19-Jul-2021 21:26

what the experts say https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.hamilton-vs-verstappen-we-round-up-all-the-opinions-after-their.75U2zIFVsOCN6Sa0lN7Rdl.html

Batman

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#2746839 19-Jul-2021 21:27

and don't forget Ferrari doing what they do best.

snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

they told leclerc he was fast enough (which was true at that time).

but then they only told leclerc to push when it was too late. applause.

tdgeek

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#2746844 19-Jul-2021 21:51

Batman:

watched it again, i dont think either party was at fault. in slow mo yes you can analyze but in real time it looked fine.

lewis was challenging the space trying to stop max turning but max was doing his thing and turned.

if you watch again lewis was alongside max at the end of the straight.

max didn't brake, he drove on and then turned, making lewis end up being behind at the moment of the crash.

agree with penalty for lewis because all season long when 2 cars touch going into the same space the car who is behind always gets a penalty it seems (unless they are in line)

1. Your wrong as he got penalised for causing a collision. Stewards 1 Batman 0 :-)

2. Martin mentioned that, turning. Lewis knows Max will turn, Max has to turn he can't go straight.

3. Lewis wasn't alongside Max , his Front wing got to Max's front wheel. Not much but he never got in front

4. Max did brake, and he didn't drive on he looked in the right mirror and drive left, opened the gap he must open as Lewis overlapped him.

tdgeek

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#2746846 19-Jul-2021 22:01

Batman:

JB said Lewis didn't hit the apex of the corner therefore he is at fault

However, if you agree that both being essentially level there, that essentially means both had rights to the corner going into the corner.

hence both are right and both are wrong, though lewis rightfully gets a penalty as per JB

No he didn't say that, he said that Lewis had room, enough room to not even hit the apex. The racing line is the apex, Lewis had so much room given to him that as well as not needing the apex, there was a full car width as well. Perhaps that he challenged Max (good on him), they started to share the turn, Lewis should have used the full car width on his right and the apex. Even if he missed the apex, he still had room. But in his defence he was turning right, by actually a decent amount, the car wasn't turning. As he said later he is going aggressive he's not going to not be aggressive now (the way he worded that was as if he's been less than aggressive these days but no more. So clearly he went hard when he should not have and took too much speed to take an easy line well away from Max

Only one got a penalty, and 25 points, the one that was free of a penalty got hospital.

tdgeek

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#2746849 19-Jul-2021 22:05

Batman:

they showed an interview with the steward - he explained both were both right and both wrong at the same time = racing incident

Damon Hill says lewis caused the incident and should be penalized, he should back off because of the nature of the high speed corner (same thing that c horner said but you can't take his word because he is RB boss, but d hill says the same thing)

So the penalty Lewis got was for a racing incident the Stewards said?

I think Damon said that Lewis was at fault and its a racing incident and probably get a penalty. Not sure how that would work out. Fault + Penalty = Racing Incident?

tdgeek

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#2746851 19-Jul-2021 22:08

Batman:

and don't forget Ferrari doing what they do best.

snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

they told leclerc he was fast enough (which was true at that time).

but then they only told leclerc to push when it was too late. applause.

Yeah I thought LeClerc said he had time in reserve. Mercedes are fast, they are poor when behind, they are a bit hard on tyres when behind, but on low fuel they are a lot better. Must be better balance

Batman

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#2746853 19-Jul-2021 22:22

tdgeek:

Batman:

they showed an interview with the steward - he explained both were both right and both wrong at the same time = racing incident

Damon Hill says lewis caused the incident and should be penalized, he should back off because of the nature of the high speed corner (same thing that c horner said but you can't take his word because he is RB boss, but d hill says the same thing)

So the penalty Lewis got was for a racing incident the Stewards said?

I think Damon said that Lewis was at fault and its a racing incident and probably get a penalty. Not sure how that would work out. Fault + Penalty = Racing Incident?

i thought it was steward, but it wasn;t it was otmar szafnauer, aston martin team boss

most experts thought it was racing incident on the f1 page

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tdgeek

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#2746868 19-Jul-2021 22:51

Batman:

i thought it was steward, but it wasn;t it was otmar szafnauer, aston martin team boss

most experts thought it was racing incident on the f1 page

Yep, I thought that. All predictable, Aston uses Mercedes powerplants. Thats F1. We crashed its your fault end of story. If you switched the cars so Lewis crashed and Max got a penalty and the win, just switch over the comments too. Toto would be screaming, Horner would be quiet and calm, just a racing incident. It would be an exact swap. Its actually funny watching two drivers call each other idiots when crashes happen. Only a few unbiased experts, the Stewards.

Batman

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#2746877 19-Jul-2021 23:34

for those interested FIA has an idiot's guide to racing. in the idiot's guide, there are rules about what to do in the straights.

but in the corners there are no rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

GV27

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#2746902 20-Jul-2021 06:58

Batman:

for those interested FIA has an idiot's guide to racing. in the idiot's guide, there are rules about what to do in the straights.

but in the corners there are no rules.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

That isn't true, as such, the old rules still prevail, including avoidable contact etc.

I think Hamilton was adjudged to be entering the corner at an angle and speed that contact with a car on his outside was inevitable, and he should have done more to avoid it.

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#2746946 20-Jul-2021 08:55

I really can't stand Lewis at all, so am definitely a bit biased, but I felt that Max gave him enough room, he turned away slightly as he saw Lewis to his right as he was entering the corner and there was easily a car width plus some there (if Lewis had slowed down to be able to hit the apex). That sort of racing (before the crash anyway) is what Lewis has been saying he wants, and what everyone wants to see, but IMO that move was reckless & unprofessional.

Lewis was never in front, and he should have backed out of it. The fact he got a penalty surely indicates the stewards thought he was more than 50% at fault? In which case a 10 sec penalty is a joke. Should be 10 sec stop & go at a bare minimum, if not more.

And the way Lewis celebrated at the end, after putting his championship rival in hospital...? Thought it was pretty disgusting to be honest.

Good move by Red Bull to get Perez to take that fastest lap point away. Be interesting to see if that one point plays a part later in the season.

tdgeek

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#2746952 20-Jul-2021 09:07

wratterus:

In which case a 10 sec penalty is a joke. Should be 10 sec stop & go at a bare minimum, if not more.

The penalty isnt based on the extent of the crash or its consequences, that was stated in the coverage. It was technically a minor mistake so he got the second lowest penalty. I accept that, BUT it makes divebombing on the inside (where you are less likely to have race ending damage) sorta worthwhile, lower risk but high reward

GV27

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#2746954 20-Jul-2021 09:09

tdgeek:

The penalty isnt based on the extent of the crash or its consequences, that was stated in the coverage. It was technically a minor mistake so he got the second lowest penalty. I accept that, BUT it makes divebombing on the inside (where you are less likely to have race ending damage) sorta worthwhile, lower risk but high reward

Especially if you get the chance to repair your car under a red flag that you caused.

tdgeek

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#2746957 20-Jul-2021 09:14

GV27:

tdgeek:

The penalty isnt based on the extent of the crash or its consequences, that was stated in the coverage. It was technically a minor mistake so he got the second lowest penalty. I accept that, BUT it makes divebombing on the inside (where you are less likely to have race ending damage) sorta worthwhile, lower risk but high reward

Especially if you get the chance to repair your car under a red flag that you caused.

Yep. If they touched and had no accident (as happened twice in the leadup to the accident) there is no penalty. Ideally the penalty should be based on the rivals race damage, i.e. DNF or forced to pit. If say Max was forced to pit then Lewis has to pit with him and do a ten second. I'd rob a bank if when I got caught I did a week in the clink and was allowed to keep the cash!

tdgeek

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#2746959 20-Jul-2021 09:19

Say Max ended up with puncture, had to crawl around the track to the pits, Lewis has to follow him, that type of thing. If you cause a rival to lose time, you need to at least suffer the same fate. DNF? Maybe has to drop back to last, etc It really does need to equalise risk and reward as much as is possible. Makes daredevil lunges more risky

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