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804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841016 31-Dec-2021 21:28

TeaLeaf:
Wow the Kings chase down 217 with nearly 3 overs to go. Even if its Puke Park that is insane hitting, firstly by Stags but the Kings just take it to another level.

Meanwhile Munro is in the top 3 batsmen again in Aus, possibly #1 depending on how you look at it, him and Phillipe.

NZ will snub him again though. Could have won a world cup for us but we just ignore him out of bitterness that he wants to earn a fair living from his talent that only lasts 15 years of his life.

If Munro does well in Aus and still doesn’t get picked for the T20 World Cup in Aus I think a lot of people will get mad. Why would you leave a batsman out who has been in fine form and spent the last 2 seasons playing in the BBL in Aus. I feel like Munro could be so vital in winning the T20 World Cup for us in Aus. He will know the conditions very well.

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841251 1-Jan-2022 10:38

TeaLeaf:

Wow the Kings chase down 217 with nearly 3 overs to go. Even if its Puke Park that is insane hitting, firstly by Stags but the Kings just take it to another level.

Meanwhile Munro is in the top 3 batsmen again in Aus, possibly #1 depending on how you look at it, him and Phillipe.

NZ will snub him again though. Could have won a world cup for us but we just ignore him out of bitterness that he wants to earn a fair living from his talent that only lasts 15 years of his life.

This game just goes to show how small grounds and the 4/5/6th bowlers in NZ T20 competition make the batters like look world beaters. Don't know if it has every been done but be interesting to see how many of the sixes would be out on a proper ground.

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841254 1-Jan-2022 10:44

TeaLeaf:

He is unique but that is how all the modern players seem to be, if technique was 100% batting, Steve Smith wouldnt be the best batsman of he modern era. Most of the good T20 players that play 360 degrees are facing 3/4 shoulders. Phillipe is the same in the BBL, and hes averaging 50 @ 150.

I hope Allen does get tested, hes a bright guy, I can see him countering any percieved technical weaknesses.

Jeet Raval showing a totally different side in this game. Batting at good SR and hanging in there giving them a chance, I thought they would have lost this one with ease, but not so. Still very much in it.

Have you ever watched Finn Allen in Plunket Shield cricket? He gets out the same way all the time. Now if he wants to make money having 20 balls an innings in T20 then great, if he wants to be known as a class cricketer then improve in proper cricket.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841347 1-Jan-2022 12:42

Interesting point commentary raise about Conway moving to 3, which with Kane out makes sense. But when he is back and Ross retires, does Conway go to 4 or open again, when Will Young Avgs 49 FC at 4 but only 36 opening, but has done what was asked of him, become an opening batsman. Personally if I were Conway my preference would be 4 so maybe that may come into it. I guess either way, both positions now appeared covered, both will be around 5-8 years, much like Williamson, Nicholls and Latham, so will be interesting to see the succession plans coming through, probably the bowlers in this current team will break down first. But will be a big patch of players retiring at ones, so I hope we get the young players in matches as that period looms up, so we can at least have a competitive team post Williamson era, unlike what happened post Hadlee/Crowe era.

Richardson wants to see Ravindra push up the order over time to become an opener. For me I just want to see him score some runs. Hes definitely there for his bat so needs to keep working on that as a priority.

NZ are a bit shaky in the middle from Ravindra, Blundell, Nicholls and Taylor and then you have both Conway and Will Young being fairly new (even if Will has been selected before).

Blundell needs to deliver as well, I dont think hes irreplaceable. I doubt we will get somebody else averaging near 40 at keep for a while, but hes been out of form since moving from opening. GP has put the gloves away but Im sure if asked to concentrate on them again he would get cracking at it. NZ has a plethora of batsman keepers at the mo, but Blundell is possibly the best specialist keep. Id like to see Ravindra play 6 to give him more time to deliver under less pressured situations.

Im picking a century from Young today and a 5fa from Jamo starting late tomorrow afternoon.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841361 1-Jan-2022 13:04

TeaLeaf:
Interesting point commentary raise about Conway moving to 3, which with Kane out makes sense. But when he is back and Ross retires, does Conway go to 4 or open again, when Will Young Avgs 49 FC at 4 but only 36 opening, but has done what was asked of him, become an opening batsman. Personally if I were Conway my preference would be 4 so maybe that may come into it. I guess either way, both positions now appeared covered, both will be around 5-8 years, much like Williamson, Nicholls and Latham, so will be interesting to see the succession plans coming through, probably the bowlers in this current team will break down first. But will be a big patch of players retiring at ones, so I hope we get the young players in matches as that period looms up, so we can at least have a competitive team post Williamson era, unlike what happened post Hadlee/Crowe era.

Richardson wants to see Ravindra push up the order over time to become an opener. For me I just want to see him score some runs. Hes definitely there for his bat so needs to keep working on that as a priority.

NZ are a bit shaky in the middle from Ravindra, Blundell, Nicholls and Taylor and then you have both Conway and Will Young being fairly new (even if Will has been selected before).

Blundell needs to deliver as well, I dont think hes irreplaceable. I doubt we will get somebody else averaging near 40 at keep for a while, but hes been out of form since moving from opening. GP has put the gloves away but Im sure if asked to concentrate on them again he would get cracking at it. NZ has a plethora of batsman keepers at the mo, but Blundell is possibly the best specialist keep. Id like to see Ravindra play 6 to give him more time to deliver under less pressured situations.

Im picking a century from Young today and a 5fa from Jamo starting late tomorrow afternoon.

Another wicket-keeper batsman that could replace Blundell if he doesn’t do well is Cleaver (Williamson cousin). He averages around 42 in First Class.

Ravindra needs to score more runs first. We already have opening batsman but I do see that in the future he will batting higher.

I hope Conway and Young score centuries today or tomorrow. They are having a good partnership at the moment.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841362 1-Jan-2022 13:04

Jas777:

Have you ever watched Finn Allen in Plunket Shield cricket? He gets out the same way all the time. Now if he wants to make money having 20 balls an innings in T20 then great, if he wants to be known as a class cricketer then improve in proper cricket.

I understand what you are saying. Although he is only 22yo. I think all batsmen at this level get coaching on perceived weaknesses and if he is out the same way consistently it gets worked on hard. Im not expecting him to make (or want to) test cricket (the money is in being a modern batsman with genuine power + 360 degree shots), but he would be handy for ODIs if he can apply a lengthier approach to his T20 batting and correct anything technical required. Who knows, maybe with some more coaching he may makes further in roads at FC and List A other than being a slogger.

But one thing hes got down well mentally is the very limited amount of deliveries in T20 so make sure the majority go to the boundary.

A lot of power hitting guys in the T20 scene in NZ now who seem to have sussed this out and am enjoying that crack sound so often that comes from a high grip, good timing and the centre of the bat, both along the carpet and in the air.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841368 1-Jan-2022 13:14

Dochart:

Another wicket-keeper batsman that could replace Blundell if he doesn’t do well is Cleaver (Williamson cousin). He averages around 42 in First Class.

Ravindra needs to score more runs first. We already have opening batsman but I do see that in the future he will batting higher.

I hope Conway and Young score centuries today or tomorrow. They are having a good partnership at the moment.

Yes Cleaver is a good keeper and batsman, given most improve on first class avg, he could have been a keeper averaging 45 in tests. I guess they are sticking with Blundell due to having been in and around the team.

Yeah Im not sure about Ravindra opening, but I can see him in the middle order in time. I would like to see other young players in these kinds of tests, maybe not without Kane, perhaps GP given another shot or rotating with Ravindra, or giving one of the middle order a rest (not dropped as such). We will need a lot of experienced high quality players like I said earlier in 4-8 years and that doesnt just happen by itself without blooding young players in matches you should be expecting to win.

Edit: I think that was NZ's session and now after lunch I expect the run rate to lift with the off spinner on for Bangers, both Young and Conway can slap the ball to the boundary with low risk shots. currently 2.2rpo, but expect that over 3rpo by tea. If NZ had won the toss I think this would likely have been a 3 day test, as it stands a quick 500 from NZ may see a 4 day game. One of these two will go on and score a century if not both, with the rest hopefully batting around them. This is why Id like to see Ravindra at 6, if his future is as a top order batsman who can bowl, he needs more time with less pressure to slog.

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841442 1-Jan-2022 14:13

On queue Conway hits a 6 then a 4. run rate up to 2.65 already.

Conway now the most runs in first 7 innings for any Kiwi.

And another 4. This could get entertaining right up to the new ball.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841453 1-Jan-2022 14:50

TeaLeaf:
On queue Conway hits a 6 then a 4. run rate up to 2.65 already.

Conway now the most runs in first 7 innings for any Kiwi.

And another 4. This could get entertaining right up to the new ball.

When Williamson comes back our Top 4 is going to be lethal in Tests. Latham, Young, Williamson and Conway. I would say no other test nation compares to Blackcaps Top 4 in Tests. Maybe Aus is a close 2nd if they get rid of Harris.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841465 1-Jan-2022 15:29

Dochart:

When Williamson comes back our Top 4 is going to be lethal in Tests. Latham, Young, Williamson and Conway. I would say no other test nation compares to Blackcaps Top 4 in Tests. Maybe Aus is a close 2nd if they get rid of Harris.

Yep Id agree with that, at home. In saying that, all 4 of them can play spin with Latham and Young being pretty much the only players capable of handling it in that last Ind test. So perhaps our chances next Sub Cont tour might be better with Conway there.

Aus will lose Warner fairly soon and another 4 or so years Smith. Unless somebody comes through as a stand out, Marnus could be stranded. When Smith and Warner were suspended they dropped to 5th ICC. Given Marnus was just a lucky injury replacement in Eng, and his Test avg is miles above his FC, it just shows you never know where players may come from.

Oh dear Young, was on for that century I picked, ran himself out by one frame, half a frame perhaps. Looked so casual getting back though, very bizarre. Is up to Conway to get the double century now with Taylor maybe getting a tonne in support.

Young for me is easily good enough, was the most solid of the 3 in defense of the new ball this morning, and perhaps should have been given more investment earlier on by NZC given how much investment they have continuously put through Nicholls. Either way Young has shown classic opening batsman defense then scoring post new ball. Avg of 49 at 4 though, or me perhaps he should have been #5 a long time ago for NZ. Highly debtable Nicholls over Young, but its a past point now, just ironic hes asked to focus on opening and then when he makes the team the #4 spot becomes available bahaha.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841466 1-Jan-2022 15:34

TeaLeaf:
Dochart:

When Williamson comes back our Top 4 is going to be lethal in Tests. Latham, Young, Williamson and Conway. I would say no other test nation compares to Blackcaps Top 4 in Tests. Maybe Aus is a close 2nd if they get rid of Harris.

Yep Id agree with that, at home. In saying that, all 4 of them can play spin with Latham and Young being pretty much the only players capable of handling it in that last Ind test. So perhaps our chances next Sub Cont tour might be better with Conway there.

Aus will lose Warner fairly soon and another 4 or so years Smith. Unless somebody comes through as a stand out, Marnus could be stranded. When Smith and Warner were suspended they dropped to 5th ICC. Given Marnus was just a lucky injury replacement in Eng, and his Test avg is miles above his FC, it just shows you never know where players may come from.

Oh dear Young, was on for that century I picked, ran himself out by one frame, half a frame perhaps. Looked so casual getting back though, very bizarre. Is up to Conway to get the double century now with Taylor maybe getting a tonne in support.

Young for me is easily good enough, was the most solid of the 3 in defense of the new ball this morning, and perhaps should have been given more investment earlier on by NZC given how much investment they have continuously put through Nicholls. Either way Young has shown classic opening batsman defense then scoring post new ball. Avg of 49 at 4 though, or me perhaps he should have been #5 a long time ago for NZ. Highly debtable Nicholls over Young, but its a past point now, just ironic hes asked to focus on opening and then when he makes the team the #4 spot becomes available bahaha.

I feel like Young is a better batter compared to Nicholls. But with Taylor retiring that No 5 spot that Nicholls is in is currently safe unless GP, Cleaver and others start performing in First Class cricket.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841468 1-Jan-2022 16:02

Dochart:

I feel like Young is a better batter compared to Nicholls. But with Taylor retiring that No 5 spot that Nicholls is in is currently safe unless GP, Cleaver and others start performing in First Class cricket.

I think he is easily better. Although that run out he will never forget for the complacency of taking the throw for granted as being soft, which is clearly wasnt. He could have gone on for a big one, in fact he looked so solid Im sure he was on for 150 minimum.

Yep I agree. Nicholls isnt good enough for 4 and unless he has another bad patch I dont see our top FC players, especially the younger ones, blooded via 5, so it leaves Ravindra's spot or Blundell, who for me, whilst a great keeper, isnt the best batsman. Should be the top 6 batsman in the country and the best keeper but Blundell is in at 6, so he should be one of the top 6 batsman in the country which he just isnt. But I get its because they are trying to protect Ravindra at 7 which makes it semantics really. I just think without Rosco and Watling, we are 1 amazing player short. Hopefully that becomes Ravindra. If not, possibly due to a form slump if it occurs. 5 might become a possiblity. So, form for Nicholls and Blundell are the 2 avenues and the 3rd is if Ravindra needs to go back to 1st class for a bit, but lets hope he proves like Williamson, shakey first couple of years and slowly cements his spot, which I think will be 5 in this team.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841481 1-Jan-2022 16:57

Now these are the moment Nicholls MUST perform, when we actually need him too (without being dropped 7 times in the innings when he his place was on the line)

Dont blame Ross, was there to be hit and hes just out to play his natural game which is see and hit hard.

We had a long period where we averaged above 40 to 6 and santner ~30 at 7, aside from the one opener we were missing.

With Young looking like about similar to Latham type average (which will be a first for NZ, 2 openers averaging above 40) and with Conway replacing Ross, if we can get Ravindra to avg 40 at #6 and Blundell ~30 at 7 (or even better with some options there) then Jamo somewhere around ~30 once he gets to 50 tests, then I think NZ are going to be even better than they have ever been. And we have a number of quality first class players to call upon if injuries occur. Play our best first class players period, which I personally dont think Mitchell fits but was a good replacement for Santner when it was very green. Good times ahead.

Franky hit the nail on the head with Nicholls technical weakness, the gap between bat pad which has seen him dubbed "Nickolls". Its not just spin it occurs, but he does not handle the ball coming back in from the spinner very well at all. I hope he either genuinely comes of age or he fails miserably and we replace him, for me he has had a couple great innings but only the one in UAE vs Pak when we needed him. He has the ability, I think its all mental. Either way, this post Taylor/Watling era, we really need solid avd 40+ players in the top 6 which he is clinging on to.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2841495 1-Jan-2022 17:34

Nicholls looks his best when hes actually playing his shots, even if a couple were streaky, rather than padding up.

Conway, well, he could get a triple here.

This could still be a 3 day test even with NZ batting first on a green wicket.

Really want to see Ravindra score runs.

Conway is just playing all the shots including t20 esque ones. He has blasted that run rate up and that is what NZ desperately were missing in India with 1.8 rpo over 100 overs.

I know it was just bad luck, but potentially that punch of his bat from Conway may have cost us the T20WC and a draw in the 2nd Ind test. But hes hopefully going to do so much more for us in the next 6-8 years.

Lets see if Nicholls can pull it back in (realise mindfully that he needs to play with more care) with better technique with the new ball coming up, thats the only potential way in for Bangers imo.

Edit: Oh dear, Nicholls tries to sweep but doesnt even look at the ball, turning his head as he reaches out and gets one in the grill. Not the kind of technique we want to see.

I wonder if there is anybody in our top FC players that handle spin quite well that maybe we could include in the squad in the next Sub Cont tour? We know Latham does and Conway and Young, Williamson is pretty good if its not all on him, would be nice to have another top 6 player who can handle turning wickets.

Oh dear, Conway strangled down leg side. 500 is looking unlikely now, outside big scores from Blundell, Ravindra and Jamo.

Now THESE are the innings I am talking about where Nicholls just gets out blazza, he needs to perform here. Last years 170 dropped 7 times shouldnt have saved him imo.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2841499 1-Jan-2022 17:48

TeaLeaf:
Nicholls looks his best when hes actually playing his shots, even if a couple were streaky, rather than padding up.

Conway, well, he could get a triple here.

This could still be a 3 day test even with NZ batting first on a green wicket.

Really want to see Ravindra score runs.

Conway is just playing all the shots including t20 esque ones. He has blasted that run rate up and that is what NZ desperately were missing in India with 1.8 rpo over 100 overs.

I know it was just bad luck, but potentially that punch of his bat from Conway may have cost us the T20WC and a draw in the 2nd Ind test. But hes hopefully going to do so much more for us in the next 6-8 years.

Lets see if Nicholls can pull it back in (realise mindfully that he needs to play with more care) with better technique with the new ball coming up, thats the only potential way in for Bangers imo.

Edit: Oh dear, Nicholls tries to sweep but doesnt even look at the ball, turning his head as he reaches out and gets one in the grill. Not the kind of technique we want to see.

I wonder if there is anybody in our top FC players that handle spin quite well that maybe we could include in the squad in the next Sub Cont tour. We know Latham does and Conway and Young, Williamson is pretty good if its not all on him, would be nice to have another top 6 player who can handle turning wickets.

Oh dear, Conway strangled down leg side. 500 is looking unlikely now, outside big scores from Blundell, Ravindra and Jamo.

Now let see if Nicholls can score a 50 or if he will be out soon.

Worker and Chapman doing well so far in the Ford Trophy against Wellington.

I reckon we should have persisted with Worker in the ODI opening with Guptill. Maybe with Ross retiring, Conway most likely going to be batting at 4 but the opening combination should be Guptill and Worker.

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