We lost another true F1 hero today

RIP Niki Lauda. 3 time wold champ

ResponseMediaNZ:

 

We lost another true F1 hero today

RIP Niki Lauda. 3 time wold champ

 

Oh dear, just logged on.

R.I.P. 

I was a huge fan of Niki and had really missed him on track since he had been sick. His insights and views during the TV coverage were legendary.

RIP

RIP Niki
:-(

Of the "Legends of F1", there's only Jackie Stewart and Alain Prost left, I think - Michael isn't really with us anymore

that race was going great until the officials ruined it. Vettel looks pretty pissed, Hamilton will be pretty happy behind the scenes but showed good sportsmanship on the podium. 

Would like to know what happened to Norris's car, commentates saying brakes overheated and pretty much melts the suspension. I was surprised marshals didn't come running in to put out the fire. they just let it burn out and no one came to his aid. 

langi27:

 

that race was going great until the officials ruined it. Vettel looks pretty pissed, Hamilton will be pretty happy behind the scenes but showed good sportsmanship on the podium. 

 

Would like to know what happened to Norris's car, commentates saying brakes overheated and pretty much melts the suspension. I was surprised marshals didn't come running in to put out the fire. they just let it burn out and no one came to his aid. 

 

Agree, it was ruined. Vettel was good, he acknowledged it wasn't Hamilton it was the stewards. No excuse. Its an unsafe re entry. It wasn't, Vettel was not controlling the car and did not decide to re enter in an unsafe manner. he wasn't in control. 

Norris. Yes, the brakes overheated and caught fire, melting the suspension. I had the feeling they did not want a safety car. 

just watched the highlights.

I would have called it a racing incident, although on the slow mo replay, vettel does appear to re enter and point forward, before deciding to run wide (which will obviously pinch hamilton, who Vettel knows damn well is there).

Jaxson:

 

just watched the highlights.

I would have called it a racing incident, although on the slow mo replay, vettel does appear to re enter and point forward, before deciding to run wide (which will obviously pinch hamilton, who Vettel knows damn well is there).

 

Yes, he did know he was there. No doubt he put himself and Hamilton into an unsafe position. Vettel made a mistake, there is no rule to penalise that. Did Vettel re enter the track in an unsafe manner? No. he had no control, so he did not make a choice to place the car. he had no control on the grass, when he hit the track the back slid. Until that stabilised there was no control, and therefore Vettel did not enter the track in an unsafe manner, the car did. Vettel did not choose I will go here to cut Lewis off. Commentator opinion was 100% with that opinion. Those that award the penalty awarded it based on the literal wording, and ignored that he had no control. They assumed he had control, that's all I can think of.

re-entering the track in an unsafe fashion is a subjective judgement.

I think the stewards at an F1 race are probably more qualified than ... hmm (thinks for a moment about correct word use)... than literally anyone else weighing in on the issue. Even ex F1 drivers won't have seen all the details that the stewards had access to.

So based on the fact that a panel of experienced stewards with access to all possible information at the time judged it to be an unsafe re-entry, that's what I am going with.

I mean, that IS more likely to be correct than "I know better than the stewards, Vettel could clearly have stayed further left based on the fact I was watching real close and I have followed F1 for years".

Isn't it?

Cheers - N

Talkiet:

 

re-entering the track in an unsafe fashion is a subjective judgement.

 

I think the stewards at an F1 race are probably more qualified than ... hmm (thinks for a moment about correct word use)... than literally anyone else weighing in on the issue. Even ex F1 drivers won't have seen all the details that the stewards had access to.

 

So based on the fact that a panel of experienced stewards with access to all possible information at the time judged it to be an unsafe re-entry, that's what I am going with.

 

I mean, that IS more likely to be correct than "I know better than the stewards, Vettel could clearly have stayed further left based on the fact I was watching real close and I have followed F1 for years".

 

 

 

Isn't it?

 

Cheers - N

 

I guess they have more access but the access we all had was quite clear. We see the car on the grass, we see the rear slide on the tarmac, confirmed by the steering wheel correction. The clip below, if you look at the small slide on the tarmac, in the first few seconds of the clip, if that did not happen there was room for Lewis and room for Vettel to steer left retain that space for Lewis. But the small and quick loose rear end removed that. 

The stewards have made many decisions that many commentators have not agreed with. They see an incident, and they are then restricted to the wording in the rules. The Point I make and others have, yes, F1 ex drivers, is that did Vettel re enter the track and therefore he owns the re entry, or was he still a passenger, and still correcting when Hamilton backed out? I.e. did he choose to block Hamilton or not?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.watch-vettels-canada-penalty-how-the-drama-unfolded.28tszWc6P4BuChKipgmYCW.html

Reason: The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5, left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Thats the official result. They have decided that Vettel had full control of the car, and that he choose to cut Hamilton off, on purpose. Despite the decent twitch when in the tarmac, Vettel had full control. I can't see that at all

I think it's a 50:50 call, but let's step through what's gone on.  Vettel stuffed up and went over the corner onto the grass.  At that point he's at fault for whatever comes next as he's left the track. 

Momementum takes him over the grass and he eventually regains control on the tarmac.  From that point on he doesn't try to get out of Hamiltons way, in fact he continues drifting right and squeeses towards the wall, forcing hamilton to have to pull out.

At that point he doesn't give up the place, he just keep on racing to see if he gets penalised for those events, and he did.

Jaxson:

 

I think it's a 50:50 call, but let's step through what's gone on.  Vettel stuffed up and went over the corner onto the grass.  At that point he's at fault for whatever comes next as he's left the track. 

 

 

 

Momementum takes him over the grass and he eventually regains control on the tarmac.  From that point on he doesn't try to get out of Hamiltons way, in fact he continues drifting right and squeeses towards the wall, forcing hamilton to have to pull out.

 

 

 

At that point he doesn't give up the place, he just keep on racing to see if he gets penalised for those events, and he did.

 

Do we give penalties for a mistake? No. That its his mistake is not relevant. Its did he on purpose, have full control of his car and cut Lewis off? The stewards decided he did. he had 100% control. If you look at the clip, its all happening fast, the loose rear end is clear, it wiggles. Jenson went through it in slo mo, explaining the correction of the loose rear end. Then he has control, and the car is in the direction its in, this is 160kph. I guess he could have quickly steered hard left on a  hot track, with grass on the wheels and then it would have spun into Lewis. reminder all this from when he got on to the tarmac is over in a fraction of a second. I think that he got control a fraction after the wiggly rear end, the car was pointing where it was, which was to the fence at an angle, and its travelling at 160kph. 

It strikes me as an under pressure decision. It wasn't 50/50 to the experts, nor the detailed evaluation of the slo mo.

tdgeek:

 

Reason: The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5, left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

 

Thats the official result. They have decided that Vettel had full control of the car, and that he choose to cut Hamilton off, on purpose. Despite the decent twitch when in the tarmac, Vettel had full control. I can't see that at all

 

but..

a) You're not a steward

b) We don't know at what precise point the stewards decided that Vettel had SUFFICIENT control of the car to be determined to have had less runny wide options

c) I suspect whatever we might think (and yes I do race) we have no idea when a driver the caliber of Vettel would have had enough control to be able to do SOMETHING about it.

Personally I do think he ran wider than he needed to on re-entry.

N